4 ms·

You are making it worse yourself by posting your updates on those walled gardens.

the_af 4y ago
Yes. But I mean, these are not communities I created myself. Whatever the platform (phpbb, reddit, fb, etc) I always witness a sizeable portion of the community split away to something else (Discord, etc). It's maddening.
bombcar 4y ago
It always ends up being a doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. If you don't post on those groups or create them, they get created anyway, and now they exist and you have no direct influence on them; and that can easily result in a community misunderstanding and split. And if you do create them, you've encouraged walled gardening and there will STILL be stuff not duplicated.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Splits can always happen, and are probably a good thing once the community gets big enough, and it is also a good thing that these splits are even easier if you're not using platforms. Doesn't mean you have to support the people that chose to go elsewhere and tolerate those that are advertising platforms.
  - the_af 4y ago
    > and are probably a good thing once the community gets big enough Splits are happening in small-ish communities too. People don't know why, but they have to have Discord, facebook, reddit, etc. And if you join all of them -- which you often do in case they are similar but not exactly the same ("Why are you asking this? The answer was posted to the facebook group! Oh, but we are in Reddit, never mind, here's a link to fb") -- you'll see some of the same people in all of them. The one caveat is that the "owner" of the community (say, the game devs if this is about a game) are likely to be more active in only one of the platforms; Murphy's Law dictates it likely won't be in the one you prefer. Which really raises the question, if (almost) the same bunch of people is posting in Discord/fb/reddit/whatever, do we really need all those platforms? What purpose do they serve? But indeed it's doomed if you do and doomed if you don't. You have no control. You can be sure someone will create that goddamn Discord.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Yeah, the best you can do (as the "leader" or dev or whatever) is pick ONE and stick with it religiously. And "reddit" is probably the best of the worst available, at least it can be linked from elsewhere. But for large groups of the world (who are not 'gamers' or 'computer literate' or whatever) Facebook wins because everyone has Facebook.
      - BlueTemplar 4y ago
        No, again, the best is no platforms at all, so probably phpbb forums (or maybe as other have suggested, newsgroups ?)
        the_af 4y ago
        > probably phpbb forums I loved phpbb forums! I felt in control. Sadly, every community I was part of has moved on from there. One private community (I'm talking fewer than 15 members) I belong to moved to Discord. It went like this: "Hey, let's have a Discord" (me) "But I don't wanna." "Yesss... it's optional, the forum won't cease to exist and you can opt-out of Discord". Current situation: the phpbb forum is all but dead. All of the activity happens in Discord. For no good reason, except that people who are online and chatting 24/7 like it. I don't. The forum has died for me. Rinse and repeat for many other communities I used to enjoy (sometimes it's not Discord but facebook groups, with their absolutely aweful usability which is miles worse than phpbb, but you get the idea).
        BlueTemplar 4y ago
        But, yet again, did you stand your ground and did NOT keep using Discord / (ugh) Facebook ? The forum is only dead if there's nobody posting (or I guess, only 1 person, but it can still be used as a blog of sorts at that point). I've noticed that one small sized community still has an active forum at the same time as a Discord, I suspect because one/two of the users have absolutely refused to use Discord (it might help here that they are 60+ years old ?).
tarotuser 4y ago
As much as I dislike Stallman's non-tech opinions and actions, I think his proprietary social media handling policy is probably the best: https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html Assuming you must use proprietary solutions to reach your people, RMS's solution is to use the other platforms to convert to your open platform. Maybe that won't work for everyone, but at least it allows usage of cockroach motel systems to your open one.
- bombcar 4y ago
  This is elaborated as POSSE in some places: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Hmm, I don't know, social media is really good at addicting you, speaking from experience, even owning an account that you don't intend to use is "dangerous", and this seems much worse. (At least Stallman's advice is targeted at organizations, where the official nature of communications might stop the person doing the job getting in the engagement trap...)
    - tarotuser 4y ago
      True, but if you're running a website like that where you pull people from, then you should also do some automation work via NodeRed to automate those social media flows. Its hard to be suckered into a social media site if you never go there. Then again, HN is also a social media site too.
      - BlueTemplar 4y ago
        Oh yeah, and can be very addictive and a waste of time too, though thankfully it's very light on the "social" part...

Yes. But I mean, these are not communities I created myself. Whatever the platform (phpbb, reddit, fb, etc) I always witness a sizeable portion of the community split away to something else (Discord, etc). It's maddening.

bombcar 4y ago

It always ends up being a doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. If you don't post on those groups or create them, they get created anyway, and now they exist and you have no direct influence on them; and that can easily result in a community misunderstanding and split. And if you do create them, you've encouraged walled gardening and there will STILL be stuff not duplicated.

BlueTemplar 4y ago
Splits can always happen, and are probably a good thing once the community gets big enough, and it is also a good thing that these splits are even easier if you're not using platforms. Doesn't mean you have to support the people that chose to go elsewhere and tolerate those that are advertising platforms.
- the_af 4y ago
  > and are probably a good thing once the community gets big enough Splits are happening in small-ish communities too. People don't know why, but they have to have Discord, facebook, reddit, etc. And if you join all of them -- which you often do in case they are similar but not exactly the same ("Why are you asking this? The answer was posted to the facebook group! Oh, but we are in Reddit, never mind, here's a link to fb") -- you'll see some of the same people in all of them. The one caveat is that the "owner" of the community (say, the game devs if this is about a game) are likely to be more active in only one of the platforms; Murphy's Law dictates it likely won't be in the one you prefer. Which really raises the question, if (almost) the same bunch of people is posting in Discord/fb/reddit/whatever, do we really need all those platforms? What purpose do they serve? But indeed it's doomed if you do and doomed if you don't. You have no control. You can be sure someone will create that goddamn Discord.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Yeah, the best you can do (as the "leader" or dev or whatever) is pick ONE and stick with it religiously. And "reddit" is probably the best of the worst available, at least it can be linked from elsewhere. But for large groups of the world (who are not 'gamers' or 'computer literate' or whatever) Facebook wins because everyone has Facebook.
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      No, again, the best is no platforms at all, so probably phpbb forums (or maybe as other have suggested, newsgroups ?)
      - the_af 4y ago
        > probably phpbb forums I loved phpbb forums! I felt in control. Sadly, every community I was part of has moved on from there. One private community (I'm talking fewer than 15 members) I belong to moved to Discord. It went like this: "Hey, let's have a Discord" (me) "But I don't wanna." "Yesss... it's optional, the forum won't cease to exist and you can opt-out of Discord". Current situation: the phpbb forum is all but dead. All of the activity happens in Discord. For no good reason, except that people who are online and chatting 24/7 like it. I don't. The forum has died for me. Rinse and repeat for many other communities I used to enjoy (sometimes it's not Discord but facebook groups, with their absolutely aweful usability which is miles worse than phpbb, but you get the idea).
        BlueTemplar 4y ago
        But, yet again, did you stand your ground and did NOT keep using Discord / (ugh) Facebook ? The forum is only dead if there's nobody posting (or I guess, only 1 person, but it can still be used as a blog of sorts at that point). I've noticed that one small sized community still has an active forum at the same time as a Discord, I suspect because one/two of the users have absolutely refused to use Discord (it might help here that they are 60+ years old ?).

tarotuser 4y ago

As much as I dislike Stallman's non-tech opinions and actions, I think his proprietary social media handling policy is probably the best: https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html https://stallman.org/facebook-presence.html Assuming you must use proprietary solutions to reach your people, RMS's solution is to use the other platforms to convert to your open platform. Maybe that won't work for everyone, but at least it allows usage of cockroach motel systems to your open one.

bombcar 4y ago
This is elaborated as POSSE in some places: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Hmm, I don't know, social media is really good at addicting you, speaking from experience, even owning an account that you don't intend to use is "dangerous", and this seems much worse. (At least Stallman's advice is targeted at organizations, where the official nature of communications might stop the person doing the job getting in the engagement trap...)
  - tarotuser 4y ago
    True, but if you're running a website like that where you pull people from, then you should also do some automation work via NodeRed to automate those social media flows. Its hard to be suckered into a social media site if you never go there. Then again, HN is also a social media site too.
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Oh yeah, and can be very addictive and a waste of time too, though thankfully it's very light on the "social" part...