3 ms·

18 states issue drivers licenses to non-residents. This rule was to shield the identities of those people from the federal government, so that those states wou

18 states issue drivers licenses to non-residents. This rule was to shield the identities of those people from the federal government, so that those states would participate. You may not like that but being in the United States without permission is not a crime, it is a civil offense like operating a radio station without a license or pirating a DVD, and it is up to the states to decide if they want to help the federal government with non-criminal civil cases. I am an election judge in a state that issues drivers licenses to non-residents, primarily people in the years-long process of applying for asylum (which, by definition, makes them neither illegal nor undocumented) and I can assure you that processes are in place to keep them off the poll books. There are more instances of republican candidates' wives voting multiple times for their husbands than there are cases of non-residents voting. edit: the explicit reason it is not a crime to be in the country without permission is because if it WAS a crime then people accused of being in the country without permission would be granted due process, be subject to stricter rules of evidence, and have the right to access to representation, which they are not if it is a civil offense. The government does not want due process, stricter rules of evidence, or the right to representation for people it says are in the country without permission, which is why thousands of US citizens have been deported by mistake. (but people don't seem to care because those US citizens' names end in vowels and they are deported to countries where color graders throw a yellow filter on the footage whenever a film is set there)

4646383846 4y ago
This seems like a non-sequiter. My question is, so what? The matter is straitforward. If states can't be trusted to provide transparent information then, especially if those states fall along one side more than the other, the system is untrustworthy and there's no reason to humor it neither by the federal government nor by the side that isn't obfuscating its information. There's no legitimate reason for federal elections to not be the most secure elections by design.
- fortyseven 4y ago
  My beef monkey smells like tacos. (That's a non sequitur.)
keneda7 4y ago
I'm a little confused here. You say being in the US without permission is not a crime. But that means you crossed a border illegally to get here which is in fact more than a non-criminal civil case. It is stated in the first paragraph. "for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." You don't go to jail for civil cases. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
- marcusverus 4y ago
  He's playing word games by pretending that an edge case is the general case. If you come over as an adult, you have committed a crime. Most illegal immigrants fall into his category. If you come over as a child, you lacked agency to commit a crime, and your continued presence in the country is not a crime.
  - keneda7 4y ago
    Ah that makes sense. Thank you for explaining.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  > But that means you crossed a border illegally to get here which is in fact more than a non-criminal civil case. It does not. For the last 20 or so years, the majority of persons entering the United States without authorization entered legally on a visa or visa waiver and then overstayed their allotted time. Of the remaining, many of those are asylum seekers and it is explicitly legal to enter the United States by any means possible for the purpose of seeking asylum. >Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival... https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title8-section1158&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prel...
  - keneda7 4y ago

4646383846 4y ago

This seems like a non-sequiter. My question is, so what? The matter is straitforward. If states can't be trusted to provide transparent information then, especially if those states fall along one side more than the other, the system is untrustworthy and there's no reason to humor it neither by the federal government nor by the side that isn't obfuscating its information. There's no legitimate reason for federal elections to not be the most secure elections by design.

fortyseven 4y ago
My beef monkey smells like tacos. (That's a non sequitur.)

keneda7 4y ago

I'm a little confused here. You say being in the US without permission is not a crime. But that means you crossed a border illegally to get here which is in fact more than a non-criminal civil case. It is stated in the first paragraph. "for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." You don't go to jail for civil cases. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

marcusverus 4y ago
He's playing word games by pretending that an edge case is the general case. If you come over as an adult, you have committed a crime. Most illegal immigrants fall into his category. If you come over as a child, you lacked agency to commit a crime, and your continued presence in the country is not a crime.
- keneda7 4y ago
  Ah that makes sense. Thank you for explaining.
rocket_surgeron 4y ago
> But that means you crossed a border illegally to get here which is in fact more than a non-criminal civil case. It does not. For the last 20 or so years, the majority of persons entering the United States without authorization entered legally on a visa or visa waiver and then overstayed their allotted time. Of the remaining, many of those are asylum seekers and it is explicitly legal to enter the United States by any means possible for the purpose of seeking asylum. >Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival... https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title8-section1158&num=0&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prel...
- keneda7 4y ago