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Why is this a positive story? Downsides: -it is more cumbersome to replace phones, as you have to move identities from phone to phone and get approvals by carr

Why is this a positive story? Downsides: -it is more cumbersome to replace phones, as you have to move identities from phone to phone and get approvals by carriers and device makers instead of just replacing the physical SIM -you can't just hand over your phone to someone else, you have to unroll yourself and enroll the other person -you don't have anonymity and privacy since is no longer possible to use a prepaid physical SIM And what are the advantages? Cost savings of maybe $1 for a pohone that costs over $1000?

pilif 4y ago
> it is more cumbersome to replace phones, as you have to move identities from phone to phone and get approvals by carriers and device makers instead of just replacing the physical SIM That really depends on the carrier. In my case, setting up a new iPhone to replace an old one means saying yes in the prompt displayed by the phone. Nothing else. This is more convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool. > -you can't just hand over your phone to someone else, you have to unroll yourself and enroll the other person For me this is a big feature because I would never hand my phone to somebody else, but an attacker is very likely to remove the SIM card and put it into their phone. Now suddenly many 2FA accounts are protected by a 4 digit PIN rather than my 20 digit phone passphrase. > -you don't have anonymity and privacy since is no longer possible to use a prepaid physical SIM It works exactly the same way as it did with physical SIM cards only the physical card is replaced by a QR code displayed on a screen or a printed paper. If the carrier sells anonymous prepaid SIM cards, nothing prevents them from selling anonymous prepaid QR codes.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  How much more complicated and annoying is the process if you're going iPhone to Android or Android to iPhone? You take the SIM card out before handing it someone else.
  - pilif 4y ago
    you scan the QR code with your android phone. That will cause your existing phone to be unregistered. What eSIM does is turn the physical smart card into a QR code which can be shown on a screen in addition to being printed on a piece of physical paper.
    - efdee 4y ago
      In my experience, you need the old phone to scan something in order to unregister the eSIM. Might be that it depends on the carrier, not sure.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool Yeah, now I just need a printer or someone else with a phone. Oh, your camera isn't working/bad lighting/software shenanigans? Tough luck.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  ADD: Oh my, remembered one thing. Two years ago I made a QR code for a local bar so a visitor could just scan it to join the news group. One night I helped a girl to scan that QR code, because she said what scanning QR-codes never works on her phone. Turns out you need to go to the settings and check some options to allow a built-in camera to process QR codes. I think it was some premium Samsung Galaxy S20-something. *shrug_emoji*
- netc 4y ago
  > That really depends on the carrier. That's the point. Now, suddenly carrier has more powers than they should. Having a standard where consumer is in charge is much more desirable than the other way around. > This is more convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool. Then let the manufacturer know that a SIM tray without the need of SIM removal tool is your preference.
bilekas 4y ago
Coming from the original point of view that "we don't need these physical cards anymore" .. You actually make some really solid points. Specifically the ability to resell your phone conveniently. Imagine having to agree on a sale and then waiting for the changeover process to complete. Which knowing certain phone carriers would take at least 24 hours.

pilif 4y ago

> it is more cumbersome to replace phones, as you have to move identities from phone to phone and get approvals by carriers and device makers instead of just replacing the physical SIM That really depends on the carrier. In my case, setting up a new iPhone to replace an old one means saying yes in the prompt displayed by the phone. Nothing else. This is more convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool. > -you can't just hand over your phone to someone else, you have to unroll yourself and enroll the other person For me this is a big feature because I would never hand my phone to somebody else, but an attacker is very likely to remove the SIM card and put it into their phone. Now suddenly many 2FA accounts are protected by a 4 digit PIN rather than my 20 digit phone passphrase. > -you don't have anonymity and privacy since is no longer possible to use a prepaid physical SIM It works exactly the same way as it did with physical SIM cards only the physical card is replaced by a QR code displayed on a screen or a printed paper. If the carrier sells anonymous prepaid SIM cards, nothing prevents them from selling anonymous prepaid QR codes.

goosedragons 4y ago
How much more complicated and annoying is the process if you're going iPhone to Android or Android to iPhone? You take the SIM card out before handing it someone else.
- pilif 4y ago
  you scan the QR code with your android phone. That will cause your existing phone to be unregistered. What eSIM does is turn the physical smart card into a QR code which can be shown on a screen in addition to being printed on a piece of physical paper.
  - efdee 4y ago
    In my experience, you need the old phone to scan something in order to unregister the eSIM. Might be that it depends on the carrier, not sure.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool Yeah, now I just need a printer or someone else with a phone. Oh, your camera isn't working/bad lighting/software shenanigans? Tough luck.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
ADD: Oh my, remembered one thing. Two years ago I made a QR code for a local bar so a visitor could just scan it to join the news group. One night I helped a girl to scan that QR code, because she said what scanning QR-codes never works on her phone. Turns out you need to go to the settings and check some options to allow a built-in camera to process QR codes. I think it was some premium Samsung Galaxy S20-something. *shrug_emoji*
netc 4y ago
> That really depends on the carrier. That's the point. Now, suddenly carrier has more powers than they should. Having a standard where consumer is in charge is much more desirable than the other way around. > This is more convenient than having to search for the SIM removal tool. Then let the manufacturer know that a SIM tray without the need of SIM removal tool is your preference.

bilekas 4y ago

Coming from the original point of view that "we don't need these physical cards anymore" .. You actually make some really solid points. Specifically the ability to resell your phone conveniently. Imagine having to agree on a sale and then waiting for the changeover process to complete. Which knowing certain phone carriers would take at least 24 hours.