4 ms·

Democrats and Republicans agree on China. That’s a problem

3 points by dlcmh 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago
I normally don't like the Washington Post. But this much is true: The problem today isn’t that Americans are insufficiently concerned about the rise of China. The problem is that they are prey to hysteria and alarmism that could lead the United States into a needless nuclear war. Witness the unhinged reaction when a Chinese surveillance balloon drifted across the continental United States. When I provide another perspective to China, I'm routinely accused being paid by the CCP. Actually, I believe the US and China should work together more. It's better for both populations and the earth. We could use less extremism.
- t-3 4y ago
  You're right about cooperation being better than conflict, but another point I don't see being made is that conflict has no benefit! Why should we prepare to impose sanctions, limit trade, travel, international cooperation, possibly go to war, if it will not benefit the country in the long or even short term? 30 years ago the US might have been able to strangle Chinese industries in the cradle, instead we built them up and beat down our own working class. Now we want them to be less successful, but nothing will bring back our gutted industry or reverse their momentum - sanctions will just kill the USD, already badly weakened after irresponsible bandit-like actions have diminished international confidence in it's use as the currency of trade and value storage. In terms of technological advantage, we barely have any left, so why shoot ourselves in the foot while squandering our real advantages: freedom, democracy, and capital? Instead of brain drain and monetary policy, it seems like politicians are focused on whipping up support for conflict to avoid addressing domestic stagnation and corruption. https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44-critical-technologies.html https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44... The Biden administration might be limiting China's ability to manufacture advanced chips, but according to an independent think tank, the Asian nation is still ahead of the US when it comes to research in 37 out of 44 crucial and emerging technologies, including AI, defense, and key quantum tech areas. Insider reports that the Canberra-based Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) believes China has a "stunning lead" over the US when it comes to high-impact research across the majority of critical and emerging technology domains.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    >30 years ago the US might have been able to strangle Chinese industries in the cradle, instead we built them up and beat down our own working class. Now we want them to be less successful, but nothing will bring back our gutted industry or reverse their momentum - sanctions will just kill the USD, already badly weakened after irresponsible bandit-like actions have diminished international confidence in it's use as the currency of trade and value storage. Finally, an anti-China poster here that is actually truthful in their dislike of China: economics. Everything is about economics. Everything else is basically propaganda to gear up for an economic fight. There was a poster here who recently wrote something that I won't forget. When an American company makes a breakthrough in something, news headlines are like "Company X makes a break through in fusion, paving way for cheap energy.". If a Chinese company makes the same breakthrough, headlines are like "It's alarming that China is leading in fusion research".
    - t-3 4y ago
      I actually don't dislike China, I just find the emotional/racist/nationalistic rhetoric infuriating and don't acknowledge it as valid pretext for conflict. I was arguing more from a pragmatic point of view, than my own ideals or sympathies. Personally, I think it would be great if China crushes the US and reestablishes socialism on the world stage, but I recognize that our ruling class has their own interests and will pursue them without caring what I think, so I just wish they would at least do their evil competently.
      - senttoschool 4y ago
        Why do you think China is a socialist country? In many ways, China is way more capitalist than the west, especially many European countries.
        t-3 4y ago
        I don't equate free enterprise with capitalism or the lack of it with socialism, if that's what you're talking about. It's quite late and I'm tired, but to answer in one sentence: China is socialist due to having governance focused on building a stronger society rather than a stronger GDP. I don't think China is necessarily a great model for the world, but they definitely practice socialism IMO, and despite their many failures I admire the way they have been able to compromise and adapt to the circumstances without abandoning their core principles. Much of the western commentary seems to be based on a very shallow and historically-colored view of what a communist country is and should be without acknowledging the internal complexity and long-term thinking that drives those decisions.
- ororroro 4y ago
  What was the unhinged reaction? As an outsider all I saw was America asserting control over their airspace and no one got injured. Pretty tame really. Unless the article is referring to the litany of lies, threats and gaslighting that came out of China as a response.

3 points by dlcmh 4y ago

I normally don't like the Washington Post. But this much is true: The problem today isn’t that Americans are insufficiently concerned about the rise of China. The problem is that they are prey to hysteria and alarmism that could lead the United States into a needless nuclear war. Witness the unhinged reaction when a Chinese surveillance balloon drifted across the continental United States. When I provide another perspective to China, I'm routinely accused being paid by the CCP. Actually, I believe the US and China should work together more. It's better for both populations and the earth. We could use less extremism.

t-3 4y ago
You're right about cooperation being better than conflict, but another point I don't see being made is that conflict has no benefit! Why should we prepare to impose sanctions, limit trade, travel, international cooperation, possibly go to war, if it will not benefit the country in the long or even short term? 30 years ago the US might have been able to strangle Chinese industries in the cradle, instead we built them up and beat down our own working class. Now we want them to be less successful, but nothing will bring back our gutted industry or reverse their momentum - sanctions will just kill the USD, already badly weakened after irresponsible bandit-like actions have diminished international confidence in it's use as the currency of trade and value storage. In terms of technological advantage, we barely have any left, so why shoot ourselves in the foot while squandering our real advantages: freedom, democracy, and capital? Instead of brain drain and monetary policy, it seems like politicians are focused on whipping up support for conflict to avoid addressing domestic stagnation and corruption. https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44-critical-technologies.html https://www.techspot.com/news/97802-china-leads-us-37-out-44... The Biden administration might be limiting China's ability to manufacture advanced chips, but according to an independent think tank, the Asian nation is still ahead of the US when it comes to research in 37 out of 44 crucial and emerging technologies, including AI, defense, and key quantum tech areas. Insider reports that the Canberra-based Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) believes China has a "stunning lead" over the US when it comes to high-impact research across the majority of critical and emerging technology domains.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  >30 years ago the US might have been able to strangle Chinese industries in the cradle, instead we built them up and beat down our own working class. Now we want them to be less successful, but nothing will bring back our gutted industry or reverse their momentum - sanctions will just kill the USD, already badly weakened after irresponsible bandit-like actions have diminished international confidence in it's use as the currency of trade and value storage. Finally, an anti-China poster here that is actually truthful in their dislike of China: economics. Everything is about economics. Everything else is basically propaganda to gear up for an economic fight. There was a poster here who recently wrote something that I won't forget. When an American company makes a breakthrough in something, news headlines are like "Company X makes a break through in fusion, paving way for cheap energy.". If a Chinese company makes the same breakthrough, headlines are like "It's alarming that China is leading in fusion research".
  - t-3 4y ago
    I actually don't dislike China, I just find the emotional/racist/nationalistic rhetoric infuriating and don't acknowledge it as valid pretext for conflict. I was arguing more from a pragmatic point of view, than my own ideals or sympathies. Personally, I think it would be great if China crushes the US and reestablishes socialism on the world stage, but I recognize that our ruling class has their own interests and will pursue them without caring what I think, so I just wish they would at least do their evil competently.
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      Why do you think China is a socialist country? In many ways, China is way more capitalist than the west, especially many European countries.
      - t-3 4y ago
        I don't equate free enterprise with capitalism or the lack of it with socialism, if that's what you're talking about. It's quite late and I'm tired, but to answer in one sentence: China is socialist due to having governance focused on building a stronger society rather than a stronger GDP. I don't think China is necessarily a great model for the world, but they definitely practice socialism IMO, and despite their many failures I admire the way they have been able to compromise and adapt to the circumstances without abandoning their core principles. Much of the western commentary seems to be based on a very shallow and historically-colored view of what a communist country is and should be without acknowledging the internal complexity and long-term thinking that drives those decisions.
ororroro 4y ago
What was the unhinged reaction? As an outsider all I saw was America asserting control over their airspace and no one got injured. Pretty tame really. Unless the article is referring to the litany of lies, threats and gaslighting that came out of China as a response.