4 ms·

subtracting the stuff that would be common for ICE cars (tires, alignment, damage repair) the ~$2000 left over is substantially less than one would expect maint

subtracting the stuff that would be common for ICE cars (tires, alignment, damage repair) the ~$2000 left over is substantially less than one would expect maintaining an ICE car for 90,000 miles to cost, even if nothing went wrong.

bsagdiyev 4y ago
Where? At 50k miles our last car had less than $2k in maintenance done and still was covered under warranty. We replaced one set of tires in that cost as well. I would say had we kept it to 90k miles we would still be less than or at 2k total.
cjrp 4y ago
After 90k miles in an ICE, if following the recommended service intervals I'd expect to pay for: - 9x oil/filter change - 2x air filter change - 1x fuel filter change - 2x spark plug change Other things like brakes, tyres, coolant I presume are the same as an EV so not worth including. In the UK you'd be paying about £1200/$1450 for that in a normal car (e.g. VW, not Porsche).
- smileysteve 4y ago
  Brakes are different because of regenerative braking taking some of the load from the friction pads to the brushless motor. Coolant is different because it's a closed loop system that doesn't run at pressure near boiling at all times. 205f is ice coolant temperature.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    > Brakes are different because of regenerative braking taking some of the load from the friction pads. Yeah this works until you really need to break. Then they will seize because they got rusted by not being used.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - buffington 4y ago
      For the brakes to seize from rust you'd really need to have not used them for quite a while. I have a Model 3 and a Subaru STI (disc brakes on all four wheels). I usually use regen in the Model 3, but not as much in the winter (it's disabled below certain temps). The brakes work fine even after exclusive regen use for months. The STI rarely gets driven. It'll go 3-4 months of not going anywhere and frequently gets a layer of surface rust on the discs as a result. 10 minutes of driving and the rust is gone. This is a track car as well, and before it's driven it gets a safety inspection as required by the track owners. It's never failed because of surface rust on the discs. For disc brakes to rust to the point of failure would require some serious neglect in addition to harsh conditions. At that point, rusted discs are probably the least of your concerns, as the rest of the car is likely a pile of red dust.
      - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
        > For disc brakes to rust to the point of failure would require some serious neglect in addition to harsh conditions. At that point, rusted discs are probably the least of your concerns, as the rest of the car is likely a pile of red dust. Actually it was kind of normal for Toyota Prius to have seized brakes because they weren't used thanks to regen.
        buffington 4y ago
        No, that is not normal. Regen doesn't completely turn off your traditional braking system in a Prius. My wife has driven the same Prius for the past 12 years and if that model of car was prone to having its most important safety system seize up, there'd have been a massive recall for that specific issue. I've replaced the brake pads twice myself in those 12 years, and have had a mechanic do it once. The wear and tear have looked like any other old brake pad I've replaced in other cars. The discs have never looked worn beyond what's normal for a 12 year old car. Looking through my records turned up a single brake related recall specific to our model year, except it was for the parking brake. The issue they were fixing could occur if: "the driver exits the vehicle with the transmission in a gear other than ‘Park’ while the ignition is on," and required having a tiny clip installed. There was another brake related recall that was more severe, but didn't impact our model year. It did however apply to other model year Prius', and several other Toyota/Lexus models, most of which are traditional ICE vehicles without regenerative braking. Nothing to do with brakes seizing. Also, rusty rotors wouldn't cause brake calipers to seize. That'd be an issue with the calipers themselves. I'll concede that having brake pads degrade or fail could contribute to calipers seizing, and that a severely rusted disc could contribute to pad failure, but that's still a long shot. Again, the disc would have to be so severely rusted that it'd damage the pads. You'd be more at risk of pad damage from road grit than you would from the typical surface rust one gets from not using the vehicle at all.
- jerkstate 4y ago
  In most ICE cars you would also be doing an automatic transmission fluid flush, brake line flush (potentially twice) and one or two replacement batteries. In an AWD car you would also need a transfer case flush. Tesla recommends brake fluid flush only if you tow, presumably because regenerative braking reduces the load on the braking system. As well as coolant, which you mention, I looked it up and Tesla used to recommend a coolant flush at 50k miles but now says it is not required (I have had mine done at 45k miles on my current ICE car).
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Are most ICE cars automatic? Not here. Although that reminds me, with the ICE you'd probably be looking at a few hundred £ for a new clutch by 90k. EVs still have 12v batteries that need replacing, I thought.
    - grecy 4y ago
      Yes, in North America ice cars are more than 90% automatic. The 12v battery in Tesla’s is now lithium, good for the life of the vehicle.
    - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
      ??? A clutch after only 90k ??? Granted my mom bought Toyotas, but we never did any clutch changes, and drove them to 150k at least.
      - cjrp 4y ago
        Depends on what type of miles those 90k were. Highway vs. city makes a difference.

bsagdiyev 4y ago

Where? At 50k miles our last car had less than $2k in maintenance done and still was covered under warranty. We replaced one set of tires in that cost as well. I would say had we kept it to 90k miles we would still be less than or at 2k total.

cjrp 4y ago

After 90k miles in an ICE, if following the recommended service intervals I'd expect to pay for: - 9x oil/filter change - 2x air filter change - 1x fuel filter change - 2x spark plug change Other things like brakes, tyres, coolant I presume are the same as an EV so not worth including. In the UK you'd be paying about £1200/$1450 for that in a normal car (e.g. VW, not Porsche).

smileysteve 4y ago
Brakes are different because of regenerative braking taking some of the load from the friction pads to the brushless motor. Coolant is different because it's a closed loop system that doesn't run at pressure near boiling at all times. 205f is ice coolant temperature.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  > Brakes are different because of regenerative braking taking some of the load from the friction pads. Yeah this works until you really need to break. Then they will seize because they got rusted by not being used.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - buffington 4y ago
    For the brakes to seize from rust you'd really need to have not used them for quite a while. I have a Model 3 and a Subaru STI (disc brakes on all four wheels). I usually use regen in the Model 3, but not as much in the winter (it's disabled below certain temps). The brakes work fine even after exclusive regen use for months. The STI rarely gets driven. It'll go 3-4 months of not going anywhere and frequently gets a layer of surface rust on the discs as a result. 10 minutes of driving and the rust is gone. This is a track car as well, and before it's driven it gets a safety inspection as required by the track owners. It's never failed because of surface rust on the discs. For disc brakes to rust to the point of failure would require some serious neglect in addition to harsh conditions. At that point, rusted discs are probably the least of your concerns, as the rest of the car is likely a pile of red dust.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      > For disc brakes to rust to the point of failure would require some serious neglect in addition to harsh conditions. At that point, rusted discs are probably the least of your concerns, as the rest of the car is likely a pile of red dust. Actually it was kind of normal for Toyota Prius to have seized brakes because they weren't used thanks to regen.
      - buffington 4y ago
        No, that is not normal. Regen doesn't completely turn off your traditional braking system in a Prius. My wife has driven the same Prius for the past 12 years and if that model of car was prone to having its most important safety system seize up, there'd have been a massive recall for that specific issue. I've replaced the brake pads twice myself in those 12 years, and have had a mechanic do it once. The wear and tear have looked like any other old brake pad I've replaced in other cars. The discs have never looked worn beyond what's normal for a 12 year old car. Looking through my records turned up a single brake related recall specific to our model year, except it was for the parking brake. The issue they were fixing could occur if: "the driver exits the vehicle with the transmission in a gear other than ‘Park’ while the ignition is on," and required having a tiny clip installed. There was another brake related recall that was more severe, but didn't impact our model year. It did however apply to other model year Prius', and several other Toyota/Lexus models, most of which are traditional ICE vehicles without regenerative braking. Nothing to do with brakes seizing. Also, rusty rotors wouldn't cause brake calipers to seize. That'd be an issue with the calipers themselves. I'll concede that having brake pads degrade or fail could contribute to calipers seizing, and that a severely rusted disc could contribute to pad failure, but that's still a long shot. Again, the disc would have to be so severely rusted that it'd damage the pads. You'd be more at risk of pad damage from road grit than you would from the typical surface rust one gets from not using the vehicle at all.
jerkstate 4y ago
In most ICE cars you would also be doing an automatic transmission fluid flush, brake line flush (potentially twice) and one or two replacement batteries. In an AWD car you would also need a transfer case flush. Tesla recommends brake fluid flush only if you tow, presumably because regenerative braking reduces the load on the braking system. As well as coolant, which you mention, I looked it up and Tesla used to recommend a coolant flush at 50k miles but now says it is not required (I have had mine done at 45k miles on my current ICE car).
- cjrp 4y ago
  Are most ICE cars automatic? Not here. Although that reminds me, with the ICE you'd probably be looking at a few hundred £ for a new clutch by 90k. EVs still have 12v batteries that need replacing, I thought.
  - grecy 4y ago
    Yes, in North America ice cars are more than 90% automatic. The 12v battery in Tesla’s is now lithium, good for the life of the vehicle.
  - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    ??? A clutch after only 90k ??? Granted my mom bought Toyotas, but we never did any clutch changes, and drove them to 150k at least.
    - cjrp 4y ago
      Depends on what type of miles those 90k were. Highway vs. city makes a difference.