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> You find information on TikTok Am I old? What kind of information. Not to be on Googles side here but, for information in video form... YouTube is at leas

by w-ll 4y ago

> You find information on TikTok Am I old? What kind of information. Not to be on Googles side here but, for information in video form... YouTube is at least somewhat reasonable still. Right?

echelon 4y ago
TikTok is a holy grail of distilled information. In two short years of TikTok recipes, my wife has learned how to cook better than almost any restaurant we eat at, and we're serious foodies. Zero to one hundred, just from TikTok. There's everything from OSint TikTok to finance TikTok to archeologist TikTok... It's crazy, and it's good. Once you find your niche, the information density approaches that of a black hole. It's really high quality.
- w-ll 4y ago
  Is it information or inspiration, a la Pinterest? I get some cooking youtubers can be long winded like cooking blogs of before, but I feel like you find people you like, and can way easier scrub the video to important parts on YT. And I get us on HN are a particular cohort, but is there really as much depth of information? Literally had to help a family member fix their jeep over the holidays and "replace fuel pump jeep Cherokee 1998" is just not something I think Tiktok would be good at. Idk I should try and install it sometime i guess. And then also, at least i've noticed on Instagram (and occasionally FB), that like sometimes I see something. Forget about it, click elsewhere, and then cant go back to find it again? Vs /feed/history and even browser history on Youtube? Edit: Is this normal? I cant even search for videos on tiktok.com without an account?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  it's just simply that cooking is a very basic skill. it only requires that you do it. you don't need to study hard to learn to cook. The average person can learn to cook from someone who already can do it (usually it's your parents...) in a week. It usually happens at the age of 15. From then on it's only a matter of practicing and experimenting. It doesn't require a tutor, contrary to what TV shows like master chef wants to sell to you. I learned how to cook looking at my mom doing it and then tried some recipe from this book series from the '60s that were very popular in many homes when I was a kid. It's easier than learning how to bike or walk. https://www.ibs.it/in-cucina-con-fantasia-10-libri-vintage-wilma-de-angelis/e/2560043178107 https://www.ibs.it/in-cucina-con-fantasia-10-libri-vintage-w...
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > it's just simply that cooking is a very basic skill So? Millions of people lack basic skills, like 1/3 of the population struggles with digital skills. Some skills are basic but obscure - maintenance of a bicycle is a basic, but if you never has a bicycle, you won't have it. Or maybe prepping a live fish for cooking.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > So? Millions of people lack basic skills, like 1/3 of the population struggles with digital skills. You mean people can't use their hands? Digital skills are not real skills, they are imaginary skills that mostly boil down to "they don't know software products" but they also "don't care about them" and it's a very very very broad field, many people take for granted their knowledge about complex stuff, but basic "digital skills" are easily learned through simply doing it. Just like cooking, but less useful. Coincidentally, I never used TikTok, I don't know how it works, it's one of the few Chinese stuff that I really don't care about (but it's ironically loved by Americans who also hate China for everything else). Based on this sentence many people would say that I lack basic digital skills, but I am also a professional software engineer since 1996. Many of the things that are basic digital skills for me, are advanced stuff for people who only use a smartphone. Many basic skills, like using a real keyboard, are alien to touchscreen natives. And so on. TikTok is not a skill, but if it was I would lack that skill. Meanwhile cooking is something that anybody can do, even chimps ca do it https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/03/chimpanzees-can-cook-and-prefer-cooked-food-study-shows https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/03/chimpanzees-... > Some skills are basic but obscure - maintenance of a bicycle is a basic, but if you never has a bicycle, you won't have it. as I've said, biking is harder than cooking. > Or maybe prepping a live fish for cooking. If you cook it in its entirety in the oven or on a grill, it will be edible, and will taste good. Or fry it, fried lattarini are cooked exactly like that, you eat them whole. https://www.tusciatimes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/lattarini-fritti1-768x464.jpg https://www.tusciatimes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/lattar... Virtually every animal that is not an insect can be cooked the same way: open the belly, remove internal organs, cook it. Done. . Fancy recipes are not "cooking", there's the same distance between playing soccer with your friends and being a professional soccer player. Saying that TikTok helped someone to learn how to cook is misleading, the merit is of the person that started doing it and learned how to do it by doing it. Replace TikTok with "grandma book of recipe" and the result is the same. TikTok has no real value in this story, it just happened that someone used it for inspiration because that's what that person knew. Coincidence is not the same thing of correlation.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Sorry for double posting, I can't edit my comments anymore. Amusingly I just discovered that TikTok is actually a very good educational platform but only for Chinese people in China. The Chinese version of the popular short video app TikTok, known as Douyin, will force users in China who are under 14 years old to use the so called teenage mode that will limit them to 40 minutes a day between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. to ensure they get adequate sleep. Endless zombie-like scrolling is interrupted by mandatory 5-second delays. They’re also only shown specially-selected “inspiring” content. The algorithm is vastly different, promoting science, educational and historical content in China I don't know for sure if this is some form of Chinese propaganda, but assuming it's true, compared to the content that is more prominent in the rest of the World, it becomes increasingly hard to call ourselves "advanced societies".
kenhwang 4y ago
YouTube's monetization and algorithms incentivized content to be bloated with fluff like long intros, outros, intermissions, shoutouts, life updates, sponsorships, etc. Basically content that added no value to the user and only exists to make the video long enough to qualify for more ad pods. A 10 minute video would often only have 2 minutes of relevant content. TikTok encourages the opposite: so content creators cram in as much information as possible, often speeding up music and talking. Sometimes with supercuts to even minimize the natural pauses between words. The same 2 minutes of content gets sped up and cut down to 30s and shares more similarities with a lightning talk and slide deck than a video.
- w-ll 4y ago
  TikTok encourages fast consumable content (fast fashion), not information. And yes there could be fluff in longer form videos? But that also can included context, and allow the viewer to skip or watch at their own pace. You could listen to an audio book at 10x speed, but would you retain much of it? I guess i would say, TikTok information is the personification of the meme of "How to Draw an Owl" quick and short. But does it convey enough information, could a longer form be better? https://i.imgur.com/H7U6Bn2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H7U6Bn2.jpg
  - achenet 4y ago
    from my recollection of Scott Young's blog and to a certain extent my personal experience, you can generally up the video speed to 1.5x-2x and retain the same amount of comprehension - people generally talk much slower than you you can understand, because it takes more effort to say something than understand it.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > YouTube's monetization and algorithms incentivized content to be bloated with fluff like long intros, outros, intermissions, shoutouts I can watch YouTube on a television though. And, just like a book, I can skip the parts I'm not interested in. Are we at the point that research has become something that should be so effortless that even the tiniest annoyance is considered bad? > so content creators cram in as much information as possible > The same 2 minutes of content gets sped up and cut down to 30s which is exactly the opposite of good information. A lightning talk it's not information, it's an hint to something that should sparkle your interest, nobody actively search for lightning talks as a form of research. At school I studied Roman history for ever, it's not like that Roman history is really that complicated (it is vast, it spans a very long time and there are many names and many battles, but still not complex stuff) it's that persistence of knowledge requires time, repetition and going into details. You can cram Roman history in two paragraphs, but that's not information, that's trivia. But mostly, good information requires reputation: you can't just take a 2 minute video crammed into 30 seconds chipmunk high pitch voice and call it "information". That's just someone talking about stuff, as far as the use knows, it could be 100% bullshit (and probably is).
bakuninsbart 4y ago
I had a small problem with my dishwasher, and wanted to look up how to fix it. Youtube video was ~15 minutes long and in the end somehow contained less relevant information than the 1 minute TikTok. Youtube shorts is trying to get in the mix, but no matter how I try to curate my feed, there's always around 30% bald men bullshitting mixed in (Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate and a bunch of bad comedians). Their algorithm is strongly geared towards controversy, and I guess it works to increase engagement, but only for people who don't realize how toxic and unhealthy it is to watch stuff like that.
DeathArrow 4y ago
>YouTube is at least somewhat reasonable still Not really. YouTube is a mess due to advertising. You have to wade through tons of trash to find good content.

by w-ll 4y ago

> You find information on TikTok Am I old? What kind of information. Not to be on Googles side here but, for information in video form... YouTube is at least somewhat reasonable still. Right?

echelon 4y ago

TikTok is a holy grail of distilled information. In two short years of TikTok recipes, my wife has learned how to cook better than almost any restaurant we eat at, and we're serious foodies. Zero to one hundred, just from TikTok. There's everything from OSint TikTok to finance TikTok to archeologist TikTok... It's crazy, and it's good. Once you find your niche, the information density approaches that of a black hole. It's really high quality.

w-ll 4y ago
Is it information or inspiration, a la Pinterest? I get some cooking youtubers can be long winded like cooking blogs of before, but I feel like you find people you like, and can way easier scrub the video to important parts on YT. And I get us on HN are a particular cohort, but is there really as much depth of information? Literally had to help a family member fix their jeep over the holidays and "replace fuel pump jeep Cherokee 1998" is just not something I think Tiktok would be good at. Idk I should try and install it sometime i guess. And then also, at least i've noticed on Instagram (and occasionally FB), that like sometimes I see something. Forget about it, click elsewhere, and then cant go back to find it again? Vs /feed/history and even browser history on Youtube? Edit: Is this normal? I cant even search for videos on tiktok.com without an account?
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
it's just simply that cooking is a very basic skill. it only requires that you do it. you don't need to study hard to learn to cook. The average person can learn to cook from someone who already can do it (usually it's your parents...) in a week. It usually happens at the age of 15. From then on it's only a matter of practicing and experimenting. It doesn't require a tutor, contrary to what TV shows like master chef wants to sell to you. I learned how to cook looking at my mom doing it and then tried some recipe from this book series from the '60s that were very popular in many homes when I was a kid. It's easier than learning how to bike or walk. https://www.ibs.it/in-cucina-con-fantasia-10-libri-vintage-wilma-de-angelis/e/2560043178107 https://www.ibs.it/in-cucina-con-fantasia-10-libri-vintage-w...
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > it's just simply that cooking is a very basic skill So? Millions of people lack basic skills, like 1/3 of the population struggles with digital skills. Some skills are basic but obscure - maintenance of a bicycle is a basic, but if you never has a bicycle, you won't have it. Or maybe prepping a live fish for cooking.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > So? Millions of people lack basic skills, like 1/3 of the population struggles with digital skills. You mean people can't use their hands? Digital skills are not real skills, they are imaginary skills that mostly boil down to "they don't know software products" but they also "don't care about them" and it's a very very very broad field, many people take for granted their knowledge about complex stuff, but basic "digital skills" are easily learned through simply doing it. Just like cooking, but less useful. Coincidentally, I never used TikTok, I don't know how it works, it's one of the few Chinese stuff that I really don't care about (but it's ironically loved by Americans who also hate China for everything else). Based on this sentence many people would say that I lack basic digital skills, but I am also a professional software engineer since 1996. Many of the things that are basic digital skills for me, are advanced stuff for people who only use a smartphone. Many basic skills, like using a real keyboard, are alien to touchscreen natives. And so on. TikTok is not a skill, but if it was I would lack that skill. Meanwhile cooking is something that anybody can do, even chimps ca do it https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/03/chimpanzees-can-cook-and-prefer-cooked-food-study-shows https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/03/chimpanzees-... > Some skills are basic but obscure - maintenance of a bicycle is a basic, but if you never has a bicycle, you won't have it. as I've said, biking is harder than cooking. > Or maybe prepping a live fish for cooking. If you cook it in its entirety in the oven or on a grill, it will be edible, and will taste good. Or fry it, fried lattarini are cooked exactly like that, you eat them whole. https://www.tusciatimes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/lattarini-fritti1-768x464.jpg https://www.tusciatimes.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/lattar... Virtually every animal that is not an insect can be cooked the same way: open the belly, remove internal organs, cook it. Done. . Fancy recipes are not "cooking", there's the same distance between playing soccer with your friends and being a professional soccer player. Saying that TikTok helped someone to learn how to cook is misleading, the merit is of the person that started doing it and learned how to do it by doing it. Replace TikTok with "grandma book of recipe" and the result is the same. TikTok has no real value in this story, it just happened that someone used it for inspiration because that's what that person knew. Coincidence is not the same thing of correlation.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Sorry for double posting, I can't edit my comments anymore. Amusingly I just discovered that TikTok is actually a very good educational platform but only for Chinese people in China. The Chinese version of the popular short video app TikTok, known as Douyin, will force users in China who are under 14 years old to use the so called teenage mode that will limit them to 40 minutes a day between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. to ensure they get adequate sleep. Endless zombie-like scrolling is interrupted by mandatory 5-second delays. They’re also only shown specially-selected “inspiring” content. The algorithm is vastly different, promoting science, educational and historical content in China I don't know for sure if this is some form of Chinese propaganda, but assuming it's true, compared to the content that is more prominent in the rest of the World, it becomes increasingly hard to call ourselves "advanced societies".

kenhwang 4y ago

YouTube's monetization and algorithms incentivized content to be bloated with fluff like long intros, outros, intermissions, shoutouts, life updates, sponsorships, etc. Basically content that added no value to the user and only exists to make the video long enough to qualify for more ad pods. A 10 minute video would often only have 2 minutes of relevant content. TikTok encourages the opposite: so content creators cram in as much information as possible, often speeding up music and talking. Sometimes with supercuts to even minimize the natural pauses between words. The same 2 minutes of content gets sped up and cut down to 30s and shares more similarities with a lightning talk and slide deck than a video.

w-ll 4y ago
TikTok encourages fast consumable content (fast fashion), not information. And yes there could be fluff in longer form videos? But that also can included context, and allow the viewer to skip or watch at their own pace. You could listen to an audio book at 10x speed, but would you retain much of it? I guess i would say, TikTok information is the personification of the meme of "How to Draw an Owl" quick and short. But does it convey enough information, could a longer form be better? https://i.imgur.com/H7U6Bn2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H7U6Bn2.jpg
- achenet 4y ago
  from my recollection of Scott Young's blog and to a certain extent my personal experience, you can generally up the video speed to 1.5x-2x and retain the same amount of comprehension - people generally talk much slower than you you can understand, because it takes more effort to say something than understand it.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> YouTube's monetization and algorithms incentivized content to be bloated with fluff like long intros, outros, intermissions, shoutouts I can watch YouTube on a television though. And, just like a book, I can skip the parts I'm not interested in. Are we at the point that research has become something that should be so effortless that even the tiniest annoyance is considered bad? > so content creators cram in as much information as possible > The same 2 minutes of content gets sped up and cut down to 30s which is exactly the opposite of good information. A lightning talk it's not information, it's an hint to something that should sparkle your interest, nobody actively search for lightning talks as a form of research. At school I studied Roman history for ever, it's not like that Roman history is really that complicated (it is vast, it spans a very long time and there are many names and many battles, but still not complex stuff) it's that persistence of knowledge requires time, repetition and going into details. You can cram Roman history in two paragraphs, but that's not information, that's trivia. But mostly, good information requires reputation: you can't just take a 2 minute video crammed into 30 seconds chipmunk high pitch voice and call it "information". That's just someone talking about stuff, as far as the use knows, it could be 100% bullshit (and probably is).

bakuninsbart 4y ago

I had a small problem with my dishwasher, and wanted to look up how to fix it. Youtube video was ~15 minutes long and in the end somehow contained less relevant information than the 1 minute TikTok. Youtube shorts is trying to get in the mix, but no matter how I try to curate my feed, there's always around 30% bald men bullshitting mixed in (Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate and a bunch of bad comedians). Their algorithm is strongly geared towards controversy, and I guess it works to increase engagement, but only for people who don't realize how toxic and unhealthy it is to watch stuff like that.

DeathArrow 4y ago

>YouTube is at least somewhat reasonable still Not really. YouTube is a mess due to advertising. You have to wade through tons of trash to find good content.