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> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction

> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction with a company's products.

midoridensha 4y ago
Maybe they should work someplace better. It's like people saying the American automakers should have been bailed out just to save all the jobs: if those companies had been left to die, other automakers would have taken over their marketshare and expanded operations, hiring the unemployed workers and probably buying up a lot of factories, support companies, etc. Keeping a shitty company alive with bad management in place just for the workers isn't good for the market in general. Disclaimer: I'm just arguing the general principle here. I don't have any strong opinions on Atlassian.
- coding123 4y ago
  The better way than to waste everyone's time with comments like this is to start a company that competes. I bet you don't get very far. If you do, good for you, maybe you'll have a company in 20 years that people on hacker news says "Keeping a shitty company alive with bad management in place just for the workers isn't good for the market in general." while you roll in your gold sheets at night.
- sillybov3456 4y ago
  The other point of view is that the industry would have been entirely off shored. I think this is particularly a concern in tech, where US workers are notably spoiled even in comparison to the rest of the US. That wasn't the case with the auto workers to the same extent and so people were more sympathetic. I'd imagine everybody in tech gets told to fuck off pretty rudely if it ever gets to the point of bailouts, so the good news is that your concern is unfounded.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >The other point of view is that the industry would have been entirely off shored. No, it wouldn't have. The ownership might have, but that's ok. Lots of great cars are built in the USA, by American workers, by companies like BMW and Honda and Toyota. If GM had been allowed to die, that would have simply meant more foreign-brand-owned factories in the US. Why do you care so much about the nationality of the top execs?
twblalock 4y ago
9000 people who make products that suck should do something else with their lives. Does that mean they will lose their jobs? Yes. It's still the best outcome for the world and those people will get other jobs, hopefully making better products.
- andy_ppp 4y ago
  I think you’re confusing your opinion with reality, the truth is Jira (I presume this is your real complaint?) is fine and works well enough for most people they can just get on with it.
  - systematical 4y ago
    I'm actually okay with Jira. I can't understand why they don't address performance, but I can roll with it because its not that abysmal. I honestly haven't seen something much better out there so it is what it is. It's confluence that I absolutely hate, thats where the performance and generally sad state of the UX gets to me. Bitbucket is even worse, but I had forgotten about its existence until recently because the company I now work for uses that clunky POS. There are good alternatives to those products, but somehow companies get roped into that garbage because they are already using Jira. How can Atlassian have all that staff and such shit products? Edit: I know the answer because I've been a company that did all of this. Build new shit and don't focus on the main product, then lay off your staff.
    - twblalock 4y ago
      Their stuff just doesn't scale because they have unscalable software architectures and have never gotten past that.
    - ammo1662 4y ago
      Totally agree. Using their products is just like talking to my grandfather who is already 95 years old. I had to be very very patient and get ready for repeating something if needed.
    - 4y ago
Xeamek 4y ago
Oh stop with the virtue signaling. We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao
- kodah 4y ago
  > We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao I don't think all or even most programmers are in a position to just willy nilly dance out of a job and find one the same or better. When I quit my last job it took months of planning. It took 3-5 round difficult interviews with 10 different companies to find the one I wanted to be at. That took a little over three months total.
  - Xeamek 4y ago
    Never said you can just willy nilly dance, but you won't be walking hungry, even if you might need to get out your comfort zone and god forbid work in PHP for a few months. Compare that to people who work minimum wage, have no education and are barely keeping things together- them loosing a job and You loosing a job is just worlds apart of a difference
    - kodah 4y ago
      Yeah, I still don't agree with this. Skills become irrelevant, worker burnout and churn in tech is high, geocentralization and the requirement to move are also detrimental, the requirement to live in vastly expensive cities with reasonable commutes generally puts a higher risk level on any savings, and lastly, not all tech workers are married to other high income earners, which I feel like these privilege statements are designed to ignore.

> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction with a company's products.

midoridensha 4y ago

Maybe they should work someplace better. It's like people saying the American automakers should have been bailed out just to save all the jobs: if those companies had been left to die, other automakers would have taken over their marketshare and expanded operations, hiring the unemployed workers and probably buying up a lot of factories, support companies, etc. Keeping a shitty company alive with bad management in place just for the workers isn't good for the market in general. Disclaimer: I'm just arguing the general principle here. I don't have any strong opinions on Atlassian.

coding123 4y ago
The better way than to waste everyone's time with comments like this is to start a company that competes. I bet you don't get very far. If you do, good for you, maybe you'll have a company in 20 years that people on hacker news says "Keeping a shitty company alive with bad management in place just for the workers isn't good for the market in general." while you roll in your gold sheets at night.
sillybov3456 4y ago
The other point of view is that the industry would have been entirely off shored. I think this is particularly a concern in tech, where US workers are notably spoiled even in comparison to the rest of the US. That wasn't the case with the auto workers to the same extent and so people were more sympathetic. I'd imagine everybody in tech gets told to fuck off pretty rudely if it ever gets to the point of bailouts, so the good news is that your concern is unfounded.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >The other point of view is that the industry would have been entirely off shored. No, it wouldn't have. The ownership might have, but that's ok. Lots of great cars are built in the USA, by American workers, by companies like BMW and Honda and Toyota. If GM had been allowed to die, that would have simply meant more foreign-brand-owned factories in the US. Why do you care so much about the nationality of the top execs?

twblalock 4y ago

9000 people who make products that suck should do something else with their lives. Does that mean they will lose their jobs? Yes. It's still the best outcome for the world and those people will get other jobs, hopefully making better products.

andy_ppp 4y ago
I think you’re confusing your opinion with reality, the truth is Jira (I presume this is your real complaint?) is fine and works well enough for most people they can just get on with it.
- systematical 4y ago
  I'm actually okay with Jira. I can't understand why they don't address performance, but I can roll with it because its not that abysmal. I honestly haven't seen something much better out there so it is what it is. It's confluence that I absolutely hate, thats where the performance and generally sad state of the UX gets to me. Bitbucket is even worse, but I had forgotten about its existence until recently because the company I now work for uses that clunky POS. There are good alternatives to those products, but somehow companies get roped into that garbage because they are already using Jira. How can Atlassian have all that staff and such shit products? Edit: I know the answer because I've been a company that did all of this. Build new shit and don't focus on the main product, then lay off your staff.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    Their stuff just doesn't scale because they have unscalable software architectures and have never gotten past that.
  - ammo1662 4y ago
    Totally agree. Using their products is just like talking to my grandfather who is already 95 years old. I had to be very very patient and get ready for repeating something if needed.
  - 4y ago

Xeamek 4y ago

Oh stop with the virtue signaling. We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao

kodah 4y ago
> We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao I don't think all or even most programmers are in a position to just willy nilly dance out of a job and find one the same or better. When I quit my last job it took months of planning. It took 3-5 round difficult interviews with 10 different companies to find the one I wanted to be at. That took a little over three months total.
- Xeamek 4y ago
  Never said you can just willy nilly dance, but you won't be walking hungry, even if you might need to get out your comfort zone and god forbid work in PHP for a few months. Compare that to people who work minimum wage, have no education and are barely keeping things together- them loosing a job and You loosing a job is just worlds apart of a difference
  - kodah 4y ago
    Yeah, I still don't agree with this. Skills become irrelevant, worker burnout and churn in tech is high, geocentralization and the requirement to move are also detrimental, the requirement to live in vastly expensive cities with reasonable commutes generally puts a higher risk level on any savings, and lastly, not all tech workers are married to other high income earners, which I feel like these privilege statements are designed to ignore.