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While these facts are important, they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC. But that's probably not what people in Taiwan or many western nations

While these facts are important, they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC. But that's probably not what people in Taiwan or many western nations would say. - Taiwan clearly has the outward appearance of a full-fledged nation - There are (few) countries that have recognized it as a sovereign nation - Taiwan maintains some form of diplomatic relations, and Nancy Pelosi's recent visit was a very public sign of that - Taiwan and the PRC have been at war in the past Some might take this to say that the official status is contested.

epolanski 4y ago
> they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC No, they sound like Taiwan is part of China, something the entire world and Taiwan itself officially recognizes. It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence.
- uniqueuid 4y ago
  > It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence. That actually sounds like a very plausible counterfactual to someone outside the US.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > No, they sound like Taiwan is part of China, something the entire world and Taiwan itself officially recognizes. That presumes the "official" position is the genuine position, which is often not the case. With regards to Taiwan, "official" positions are often lies tied in knots to appease Mainland China's sensibilities.
  - epolanski 4y ago
    There's an endless number of internal and international reasons beyond appeasing the PRC.
    - messe 4y ago
      Such as?
      - epolanski 4y ago
        It is the basis of US-Taiwan relations as a starter.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > It is the basis of US-Taiwan relations as a starter. Only in the context of the PRC. The reality of US-Taiwan relations would be much clearer if it was not PRC policy to sever diplomatic relationship with any country that recognizes Taiwan. On the topic of Taiwan, it's a mistake to reason about de facto relationships from de jure "official positions." Basically, the "official positions" are lies, and the actual positions are not directly stated. For instance, if the US really considered Taiwan as "part of China," it wouldn't be war-gaming how to militarily repel an invasion from the PRC.

epolanski 4y ago

> they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC No, they sound like Taiwan is part of China, something the entire world and Taiwan itself officially recognizes. It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence.

uniqueuid 4y ago
> It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence. That actually sounds like a very plausible counterfactual to someone outside the US.
tablespoon 4y ago
> No, they sound like Taiwan is part of China, something the entire world and Taiwan itself officially recognizes. That presumes the "official" position is the genuine position, which is often not the case. With regards to Taiwan, "official" positions are often lies tied in knots to appease Mainland China's sensibilities.
- epolanski 4y ago
  There's an endless number of internal and international reasons beyond appeasing the PRC.
  - messe 4y ago
    Such as?
    - epolanski 4y ago
      It is the basis of US-Taiwan relations as a starter.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > It is the basis of US-Taiwan relations as a starter. Only in the context of the PRC. The reality of US-Taiwan relations would be much clearer if it was not PRC policy to sever diplomatic relationship with any country that recognizes Taiwan. On the topic of Taiwan, it's a mistake to reason about de facto relationships from de jure "official positions." Basically, the "official positions" are lies, and the actual positions are not directly stated. For instance, if the US really considered Taiwan as "part of China," it wouldn't be war-gaming how to militarily repel an invasion from the PRC.