6 ms·

This is the thought which comes around often. The problem is, for an intellectual, it's important to live in an environment rich with mental talent. Bay Area i

by avmich 4y ago

This is the thought which comes around often. The problem is, for an intellectual, it's important to live in an environment rich with mental talent. Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world, and while Einstein could maintain his patent clerkship and have famous physicists visit him in Bern (http://norvig.com/performance-review.html http://norvig.com/performance-review.html) for the lesser minds in another era settling on another place is a loss.

selimthegrim 4y ago
<s>Yes, because all universities in the US are in 5 places only. </s>
nobaddays 4y ago
> Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world, Lol. Damn, the 0 interest rate era/tech bubble really made you guys cocky didnt it
- queuebert 4y ago
  Don't you know the greatest minds in the world are solving the extremely important problem of getting as many clicks on an ad as possible?
vel0city 4y ago
So your argument is the only place to find intellectual people to hang out with is the Bay Area? I grew up surrounded by literally rocket scientists and some of the top minds in biochemistry and mechanical engineering as neighbors. Incredibly intellectual people. I did not grow up in California. Its not like the Bay Area is the only place with smart people.
alistairSH 4y ago
Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world Say what? Switzerland (or possibly Slovenia) has the highest STEM PhDs per capita. There are many counties and cities in the US with higher PhD rates than any of the Bay Area counties. Most have major R1 unis, but not all. SV is the VC capital of the world. I'll give you that. But, that's not even remotely the same as being the intellectual capital.
- cowpig 4y ago
  I agree about as much with the idea that the Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world as I do with the idea that "STEM PhDs per capita" is somehow a measure of intellect.
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Sure. That was just a simple metric that popped into my head as a counterpoint to the absurd notion that SV is the intellectual capital of anything.
- bumby 4y ago
  Hell, pockets of New Mexico have a higher number of PhDs per capita. The idea that SV is the intellectual center of the universe makes it sound like someone has been inside the bubble too long. (And that’s not a knock on NM. I being it up as an example of an area that isn’t rarely bright up in these conversational circles)
  - 8note 4y ago
    Do phds make intellectual capital? I'd assume the intellectual capital makes the most intellectual property
    - bumby 4y ago
      That assumption shows a very SV-centric mindset. Intellectual property is largely an legal economic construct. The PhDs in places like Los Alamos generally work more on classified projects. Your point is like saying the NSA must not have many smart people working there because they have no patents. Intellectual capital can create societal value being just dollars and cents.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  For any city making the claim, there would be someone claiming it ridiculous. There aren't many places where very smart people from all over the world move. New York is one, London used to be one, Bay Area is one. There are a lot of smart people in the bay area.
tchaffee 4y ago
You're surrounded by the intellectuals who aren't clever enough to figure out how to surround themselves with brilliant people without paying the SF premium.
idiotsecant 4y ago
>The problem is, for an intellectual, it's important to live in an environment rich with mental talent. My eyes rolled straight into the back of my head. I agree that an 'intellectual' (as a social class construct) might require similar socially oriented individuals to feel like they're among equals. I have no respect for such 'intellectuals'. I have a great deal of respect for people who are curious about the world around them and love to make new and wonderful things and think novel ideas. I find that those two groups rarely overlap.
- wyclif 4y ago
  My eyes rolled straight into the back of my head Yeah, mine too. It's hard for me to take these kinds of arguments seriously in 2023. I'm willing to concede that geographic proximity was necessary for collaborative intellectual work, but the internet has changed that milieu. I also don't think it was true pre-internet, as Einstein himself showed. Linus Torvalds didn't need to be in the Bay Area of California when he created the Linux kernel, yet it didn't happen without a massive amount of collaboration enabled by the internet. Solzhenitsyn, after he emigrated to the USA after getting deported by the Soviet Union, continued his intellectual work and writing in Cavendish, Vermont which was and is extremely isolated. And that was pre-internet!
KptMarchewa 4y ago
It's a VC capital of the world, which has weak correlation with intellect.
- avmich 4y ago
  No, it's the - the - intellectual capital of the world. I have reasons to think that, but you see here is not a good place for that discussion at the moment, too heated.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    Maybe the discussion would be less heated if those reasons are compelling?
    - avmich 4y ago
      Maybe :) but to show compelling reasons would still take time and space, and also, I suspect, an effort to unlatch from a formed opinion. We're all just humans. In a more lightweight form - what would you, as somebody interested in the matter, consider good criteria for "being the intellectual capital of the world" and what place would fit them?
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        > what would you, as somebody interested in the matter, consider good criteria for "being the intellectual capital of the world" and what place would fit them? I'd say such a place would need to be geared toward minimizing anything that could hinder intellectual capacity. The SF Bay Area (as I learned firsthand) is not such a place; the constant stress of financial insecurity does not bode well for intellectual pursuits. I don't know if any such place really exists, for pretty much the same reason - certainly not here in the US. In short, it'd need to be someplace where people could engage in intellectual pursuits for their own sake, and where the results of those pursuits are freely available to everyone - no censorship, no profit motives, no IP restrictions, nothing except the free creation and exchange of knowledge. I firmly believe that any city which institutes a land value tax and uses it to fund a citizens' dividend / universal basic income is much more likely to become an intellectual capital than a city which does not. Land speculation is the major contributor to socioeconomic inequality and consequently the major obstacle preventing cities from being truly amenable to intellectual pursuits (rather than the current status quo of financial pursuits). Directly addressing it - by requiring landowners to internalize the opportunity costs they otherwise externalize onto the rest of society - is IMO the most crucial step toward allowing people to engage in intellectual pursuits without fear of failure and without being bound by concerns like profitability. Culturally, San Francisco, Seattle, and Boston strike me as good candidates once they address the above; the first of those three to implement LVT+UBI is the one I'd bet on becoming the "intellectual capital of the world". I'm personally hoping Reno evolves into such a candidate, but that's one hell of a long shot :)
yellowapple 4y ago
I live in Reno. A past employer insisted that I relocate from Reno to SF for a new position, so I did. What I learned very quickly is that it's rather difficult to stay intellectually engaged when even a six-figure salary is paycheck-to-paycheck living in a studio apartment. I moved back to Reno shortly before COVID, and since doing so I've found myself to be much more productive. The "intellectual capital of the world" can shove it.

by avmich 4y ago

selimthegrim 4y ago

<s>Yes, because all universities in the US are in 5 places only. </s>

nobaddays 4y ago

> Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world, Lol. Damn, the 0 interest rate era/tech bubble really made you guys cocky didnt it

queuebert 4y ago
Don't you know the greatest minds in the world are solving the extremely important problem of getting as many clicks on an ad as possible?

vel0city 4y ago

So your argument is the only place to find intellectual people to hang out with is the Bay Area? I grew up surrounded by literally rocket scientists and some of the top minds in biochemistry and mechanical engineering as neighbors. Incredibly intellectual people. I did not grow up in California. Its not like the Bay Area is the only place with smart people.

alistairSH 4y ago

Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world Say what? Switzerland (or possibly Slovenia) has the highest STEM PhDs per capita. There are many counties and cities in the US with higher PhD rates than any of the Bay Area counties. Most have major R1 unis, but not all. SV is the VC capital of the world. I'll give you that. But, that's not even remotely the same as being the intellectual capital.

cowpig 4y ago
I agree about as much with the idea that the Bay Area is the intellectual capital of the world as I do with the idea that "STEM PhDs per capita" is somehow a measure of intellect.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Sure. That was just a simple metric that popped into my head as a counterpoint to the absurd notion that SV is the intellectual capital of anything.
bumby 4y ago
Hell, pockets of New Mexico have a higher number of PhDs per capita. The idea that SV is the intellectual center of the universe makes it sound like someone has been inside the bubble too long. (And that’s not a knock on NM. I being it up as an example of an area that isn’t rarely bright up in these conversational circles)
- 8note 4y ago
  Do phds make intellectual capital? I'd assume the intellectual capital makes the most intellectual property
  - bumby 4y ago
    That assumption shows a very SV-centric mindset. Intellectual property is largely an legal economic construct. The PhDs in places like Los Alamos generally work more on classified projects. Your point is like saying the NSA must not have many smart people working there because they have no patents. Intellectual capital can create societal value being just dollars and cents.
danielmarkbruce 4y ago
For any city making the claim, there would be someone claiming it ridiculous. There aren't many places where very smart people from all over the world move. New York is one, London used to be one, Bay Area is one. There are a lot of smart people in the bay area.

tchaffee 4y ago

You're surrounded by the intellectuals who aren't clever enough to figure out how to surround themselves with brilliant people without paying the SF premium.

idiotsecant 4y ago

>The problem is, for an intellectual, it's important to live in an environment rich with mental talent. My eyes rolled straight into the back of my head. I agree that an 'intellectual' (as a social class construct) might require similar socially oriented individuals to feel like they're among equals. I have no respect for such 'intellectuals'. I have a great deal of respect for people who are curious about the world around them and love to make new and wonderful things and think novel ideas. I find that those two groups rarely overlap.

wyclif 4y ago
My eyes rolled straight into the back of my head Yeah, mine too. It's hard for me to take these kinds of arguments seriously in 2023. I'm willing to concede that geographic proximity was necessary for collaborative intellectual work, but the internet has changed that milieu. I also don't think it was true pre-internet, as Einstein himself showed. Linus Torvalds didn't need to be in the Bay Area of California when he created the Linux kernel, yet it didn't happen without a massive amount of collaboration enabled by the internet. Solzhenitsyn, after he emigrated to the USA after getting deported by the Soviet Union, continued his intellectual work and writing in Cavendish, Vermont which was and is extremely isolated. And that was pre-internet!

KptMarchewa 4y ago

It's a VC capital of the world, which has weak correlation with intellect.

avmich 4y ago
No, it's the - the - intellectual capital of the world. I have reasons to think that, but you see here is not a good place for that discussion at the moment, too heated.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  Maybe the discussion would be less heated if those reasons are compelling?
  - avmich 4y ago
    Maybe :) but to show compelling reasons would still take time and space, and also, I suspect, an effort to unlatch from a formed opinion. We're all just humans. In a more lightweight form - what would you, as somebody interested in the matter, consider good criteria for "being the intellectual capital of the world" and what place would fit them?
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > what would you, as somebody interested in the matter, consider good criteria for "being the intellectual capital of the world" and what place would fit them? I'd say such a place would need to be geared toward minimizing anything that could hinder intellectual capacity. The SF Bay Area (as I learned firsthand) is not such a place; the constant stress of financial insecurity does not bode well for intellectual pursuits. I don't know if any such place really exists, for pretty much the same reason - certainly not here in the US. In short, it'd need to be someplace where people could engage in intellectual pursuits for their own sake, and where the results of those pursuits are freely available to everyone - no censorship, no profit motives, no IP restrictions, nothing except the free creation and exchange of knowledge. I firmly believe that any city which institutes a land value tax and uses it to fund a citizens' dividend / universal basic income is much more likely to become an intellectual capital than a city which does not. Land speculation is the major contributor to socioeconomic inequality and consequently the major obstacle preventing cities from being truly amenable to intellectual pursuits (rather than the current status quo of financial pursuits). Directly addressing it - by requiring landowners to internalize the opportunity costs they otherwise externalize onto the rest of society - is IMO the most crucial step toward allowing people to engage in intellectual pursuits without fear of failure and without being bound by concerns like profitability. Culturally, San Francisco, Seattle, and Boston strike me as good candidates once they address the above; the first of those three to implement LVT+UBI is the one I'd bet on becoming the "intellectual capital of the world". I'm personally hoping Reno evolves into such a candidate, but that's one hell of a long shot :)

yellowapple 4y ago

I live in Reno. A past employer insisted that I relocate from Reno to SF for a new position, so I did. What I learned very quickly is that it's rather difficult to stay intellectually engaged when even a six-figure salary is paycheck-to-paycheck living in a studio apartment. I moved back to Reno shortly before COVID, and since doing so I've found myself to be much more productive. The "intellectual capital of the world" can shove it.