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The EU regulations need a lot more enforcement and agencies really need to go after companies trying to exploit loopholes. For example, consumers are entitled

The EU regulations need a lot more enforcement and agencies really need to go after companies trying to exploit loopholes. For example, consumers are entitled to return goods and services purchased online for 14 days, with some exceptions. Almost all app stores include some weasel wording how that 14 day rule doesn't apply, or they employ some kind of intermediate currency to get around the rule (eg. you have to buy Minecoins to buy content in Minecraft). The result is that a lot of digital markets are a wild west where the consumer protection rules don't apply (eg. if you buy a fake mod in Minecraft, you just lost 5€ and there is nothing you can do about it) Another way companies get around the 14 day return policy is to just not offer services starting today, but you have to buy services 14 days ahead of time, so when the service starts you no longer have a right to reverse the contract.

krzyk 4y ago
IANAL but the above won't fly in court. At least the last part, 14 day return policy applies from the time you receive the goods/service, not when you give a business money for that good/service. E.g. you can return preordered goods, for which you sometimes wait a month. Even steam allows returning a game in 14 days (and you played at most 2 hours, which is fair).
- debugnik 4y ago
  > Even steam allows returning a game in 14 days I believe that's their own policy, digital goods that are consumable immediately can be sold with a renounce of your return period.
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Exactly, so I have no idea what the grandparent meant about app stores and "weasel wording". Digital goods are exempted from the rule (rightfully so, because you could consume it immediately). A larger list of exceptions: 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are: * plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates * goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example grocery shopping delivered by your local supermarket * goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit * sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have opened (unsealed) upon receipt * online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance * goods bought from a private individual rather than a company * urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service
kwhitefoot 4y ago
> Another way companies get around the 14 day return policy is to just not offer services starting today, but you have to buy services 14 days ahead of time, so when the service starts you no longer have a right to reverse the contract. The supplier might think that that circumvents the law, I suspect that the courts might think otherwise. Some loopholes only exist in potentia and evaporate under court scrutiny, but no one can be certain which they are until a a case is brought.
endofreach 4y ago
This is just plain wrong. The 14-day return policy is meant for physical goods in the first place. It was not meant as a trial period, but a protection because you can‘t actually see the product when buying online. Also, the 14-days do not start with the purchase date, but with the delivery date. If you buy a digital product online, it is the equivalent of a physical purchase in a physical store. So nobody needs to „get around“ the policy. They just need to let you know it does not apply. And i do think it is fair. If someone rips you off, that‘s a different story, there is laws for that and those cases aren‘t meant to be covered by this policy.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tzs 4y ago
There seems to be a fair bit of misunderstanding of this based on the various comments so far. Here's what the EU themselves say on one of their websites [1] which should clear things up (emphasis in original). First, something that applies to nearly everything: > Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised. Second, for things bought online or outside of a shop there is an additional right: > If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification. They later explain this more fully: > In the EU you have the right to return purchases made online or through other types of distance selling, such as by phone, mail order or from a door-to-door salesperson, within 14 days for a full refund. You can do so for any reason – even if you simply changed your mind. But they also say the 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. They give this of some of the exemptions: ▪ plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates ▪ goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example delivery by a milkman ▪ goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit ▪ sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon receipt ▪ online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance ▪ goods bought from a private individual rather than a company/trader ▪ urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service and also say "Please note that this list is not exhaustive. Also, > The cooling off period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. For service contracts, the cooling off period expires 14 days after the day you concluded the contract. If the cooling off period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day. [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...

krzyk 4y ago

IANAL but the above won't fly in court. At least the last part, 14 day return policy applies from the time you receive the goods/service, not when you give a business money for that good/service. E.g. you can return preordered goods, for which you sometimes wait a month. Even steam allows returning a game in 14 days (and you played at most 2 hours, which is fair).

debugnik 4y ago
> Even steam allows returning a game in 14 days I believe that's their own policy, digital goods that are consumable immediately can be sold with a renounce of your return period.
- krzyk 4y ago
  Exactly, so I have no idea what the grandparent meant about app stores and "weasel wording". Digital goods are exempted from the rule (rightfully so, because you could consume it immediately). A larger list of exceptions: 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are: * plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates * goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example grocery shopping delivered by your local supermarket * goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit * sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have opened (unsealed) upon receipt * online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance * goods bought from a private individual rather than a company * urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service

kwhitefoot 4y ago

> Another way companies get around the 14 day return policy is to just not offer services starting today, but you have to buy services 14 days ahead of time, so when the service starts you no longer have a right to reverse the contract. The supplier might think that that circumvents the law, I suspect that the courts might think otherwise. Some loopholes only exist in potentia and evaporate under court scrutiny, but no one can be certain which they are until a a case is brought.

endofreach 4y ago

This is just plain wrong. The 14-day return policy is meant for physical goods in the first place. It was not meant as a trial period, but a protection because you can‘t actually see the product when buying online. Also, the 14-days do not start with the purchase date, but with the delivery date. If you buy a digital product online, it is the equivalent of a physical purchase in a physical store. So nobody needs to „get around“ the policy. They just need to let you know it does not apply. And i do think it is fair. If someone rips you off, that‘s a different story, there is laws for that and those cases aren‘t meant to be covered by this policy.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

tzs 4y ago

There seems to be a fair bit of misunderstanding of this based on the various comments so far. Here's what the EU themselves say on one of their websites [1] which should clear things up (emphasis in original). First, something that applies to nearly everything: > Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised. Second, for things bought online or outside of a shop there is an additional right: > If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification. They later explain this more fully: > In the EU you have the right to return purchases made online or through other types of distance selling, such as by phone, mail order or from a door-to-door salesperson, within 14 days for a full refund. You can do so for any reason – even if you simply changed your mind. But they also say the 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. They give this of some of the exemptions: ▪ plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates ▪ goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example delivery by a milkman ▪ goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit ▪ sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon receipt ▪ online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance ▪ goods bought from a private individual rather than a company/trader ▪ urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service and also say "Please note that this list is not exhaustive. Also, > The cooling off period expires 14 days after the day you received your goods. For service contracts, the cooling off period expires 14 days after the day you concluded the contract. If the cooling off period expires on a non-working day, your deadline is extended till the next working day. [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...