5 ms·

Self promo on social apps like Reddit is banned BC it supports grift economies

14 points by winternett 4y ago

650 4y ago
It's supported for those in the know-how via astroturfing. Buy 2-10 year old reddit accounts for $$$ and leave a real person esque comment pointing back to your product. It's gotten worse over the years. One way to see this is looking at the user who posted the review, even if it's an old account, some companies are lazy and only have a few comments on sports/entertainment subreddits and then their most recent being a link to their comment. Of course this could be a real user, but I believe I can discern a fake. Tougher are those who interleave paid posts in between real comments. I think with the rise of Chat-GPT esque farms, user reviews will be tougher. I find people place a lot of trust in creators (tiktok, instagram, etc.) believing because the creator is "big" (5-100k followers), but not too big, they can trust them. They often are just in it for the money though and grift often as well.
Veuxdo 4y ago
Since this is about music, specifically, and the author mentions Spotify, I'll point out that Spotify sees 60,000 new tracks released every day. If Reddit et. al. didn't suppress self-promotion, they'd get overwhelmed.
- winternett 4y ago
  Spotify can easily make algorithmic changes to sort out low quality and low-listener-rated content (after a healthy/authentic audience has been exposed to each upload). This is what they should be primarily focused on. Unfortunately, sites like spotify make most uploads languish without being heard at all, unless the uploader pays (a minimum of $250) to promote their work on spotify. There is no incentive for Spotify to be fair when they get revenue from struggling artists in this manner. There are even numerous reports that Spotify (indirectly) is involved in creating fake accounts, playlists, and uploads in order to seize the lion share of profit for it and it's affiliated parties. SOURCE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+artists+on+spotify https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+artists+on... Spotify is a MAJOR company that earns a LOT of money off of user uploaded content. They can afford to moderate and police content better very easily to be honest. Excuses should not be made for their lack of intervention in fraud and payola schemes. SOURCE: In 2022, music streaming service Spotify generated a revenue of over 11.7 billion euros (https://www.statista.com/statistics/813713/spotify-revenue/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20music%20streaming%20service,subscribers%20rather%20than%20ad%20placements https://www.statista.com/statistics/813713/spotify-revenue/#....)
  - Veuxdo 4y ago
    Maybe they can help at the margins, but 60,000 new tracks per day is simply too many to deal with in a fair way, "major" company or not.
    - winternett 4y ago
      Management of Spotify isn't based on tracks, it's based on artists, which is a much easier pool to manage. That being said, with modern day scripting, it's pretty easy to evaluate 60,000 tracks in one day. The DMV manages records for Billions of citizens on a routine basis.
steponlego 4y ago
Let’s stop calling web sites “apps” RIGHT THIS INSTANT.
- winternett 4y ago
  It also encompasses social media apps, far beyond just reddit. It was uncovered that many scams were run on Facebook and Instagram by employees that locked users out of their accounts for ransom. The whole industry of social media APPS and SITES supports a huge underbelly of toxic corruption... It's a swamp if you look deep enough.
  - steponlego 4y ago
    I agree completely except for calling everything an app. Social media is causing societal decay, depression, and many immoral unhealthy things to be normalized. Including nepotism.
    - winternett 4y ago
      Amen, It is really creating a system where only wealth and nepotism are acclaimed. In many ways too character assassination and spreading false information have become exponentially worse and more weaponized. I worry about the future of where all this is going. :/
oidar 4y ago
There is an interesting astroturfing/spamming tactic on Reddit that is currently being used, and it is practically invisible to Reddit admins. Here are the steps: -1- Create at least two Reddit accounts - an astroturfing account and a moderator account. -2- Moderator account: Become a moderator of a medium-sized subreddit - it doesn't have to be about your promotion target. You can either buy a Reddit account or petition to be a moderator through various means. Use your moderation credentials to become a moderator of a relevant subreddit that is run by an absent moderator. -3- Astroturf account: Start astroturfing - by putting your links on any post that is relevant to your product in the relevant subreddit. -4- Moderator account: Set the spam filter to automatically delete all posts and domains by astroturf users. -5- Moderator account: Approve the deleted spam comments/posts. Now, after that, Reddit won't care if you mark those comments/posts as spam because they have already been identified as spam, but the moderator approved them. To get Reddit to take action in a situation like this, I had to send probably over 20-30 reports. Reddit is making it harder and harder to get in touch with administrators/abuse teams - everything is automated. The key phrase that I think got the issue raised was something like, "I believe these posts/comments violate FCC rules regarding material connection to XYZ.com. Moreover, the relationship between the moderators of the XXX subreddit and the astroturfing accounts violates moderator guidelines and promotion rules."
- winternett 4y ago
  It's all getting to be so convoluted... The common thread is usually in buying already popular/followed accounts, running platform ads, and subverting everyone else with downvotes so your posts rise to the top... Yikes... I had a sub of my own, and I just kept it set to personal posts, but eventually reddit banned all my associated accounts for cross posting to a music subreddit (first time offense = permanent ban), and that orphaned my subreddit to this day. I refuse to have to resort to wild tactics online just to be visible, even though I could hack things, I also fear that's exactly what will cause me to eventually quit out of a lack of growth.

14 points by winternett 4y ago

650 4y ago

It's supported for those in the know-how via astroturfing. Buy 2-10 year old reddit accounts for $$$ and leave a real person esque comment pointing back to your product. It's gotten worse over the years. One way to see this is looking at the user who posted the review, even if it's an old account, some companies are lazy and only have a few comments on sports/entertainment subreddits and then their most recent being a link to their comment. Of course this could be a real user, but I believe I can discern a fake. Tougher are those who interleave paid posts in between real comments. I think with the rise of Chat-GPT esque farms, user reviews will be tougher. I find people place a lot of trust in creators (tiktok, instagram, etc.) believing because the creator is "big" (5-100k followers), but not too big, they can trust them. They often are just in it for the money though and grift often as well.

Veuxdo 4y ago

Since this is about music, specifically, and the author mentions Spotify, I'll point out that Spotify sees 60,000 new tracks released every day. If Reddit et. al. didn't suppress self-promotion, they'd get overwhelmed.

winternett 4y ago
Spotify can easily make algorithmic changes to sort out low quality and low-listener-rated content (after a healthy/authentic audience has been exposed to each upload). This is what they should be primarily focused on. Unfortunately, sites like spotify make most uploads languish without being heard at all, unless the uploader pays (a minimum of $250) to promote their work on spotify. There is no incentive for Spotify to be fair when they get revenue from struggling artists in this manner. There are even numerous reports that Spotify (indirectly) is involved in creating fake accounts, playlists, and uploads in order to seize the lion share of profit for it and it's affiliated parties. SOURCE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+artists+on+spotify https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+artists+on... Spotify is a MAJOR company that earns a LOT of money off of user uploaded content. They can afford to moderate and police content better very easily to be honest. Excuses should not be made for their lack of intervention in fraud and payola schemes. SOURCE: In 2022, music streaming service Spotify generated a revenue of over 11.7 billion euros (https://www.statista.com/statistics/813713/spotify-revenue/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20music%20streaming%20service,subscribers%20rather%20than%20ad%20placements https://www.statista.com/statistics/813713/spotify-revenue/#....)
- Veuxdo 4y ago
  Maybe they can help at the margins, but 60,000 new tracks per day is simply too many to deal with in a fair way, "major" company or not.
  - winternett 4y ago
    Management of Spotify isn't based on tracks, it's based on artists, which is a much easier pool to manage. That being said, with modern day scripting, it's pretty easy to evaluate 60,000 tracks in one day. The DMV manages records for Billions of citizens on a routine basis.

steponlego 4y ago

Let’s stop calling web sites “apps” RIGHT THIS INSTANT.

winternett 4y ago
It also encompasses social media apps, far beyond just reddit. It was uncovered that many scams were run on Facebook and Instagram by employees that locked users out of their accounts for ransom. The whole industry of social media APPS and SITES supports a huge underbelly of toxic corruption... It's a swamp if you look deep enough.
- steponlego 4y ago
  I agree completely except for calling everything an app. Social media is causing societal decay, depression, and many immoral unhealthy things to be normalized. Including nepotism.
  - winternett 4y ago
    Amen, It is really creating a system where only wealth and nepotism are acclaimed. In many ways too character assassination and spreading false information have become exponentially worse and more weaponized. I worry about the future of where all this is going. :/

oidar 4y ago

There is an interesting astroturfing/spamming tactic on Reddit that is currently being used, and it is practically invisible to Reddit admins. Here are the steps: -1- Create at least two Reddit accounts - an astroturfing account and a moderator account. -2- Moderator account: Become a moderator of a medium-sized subreddit - it doesn't have to be about your promotion target. You can either buy a Reddit account or petition to be a moderator through various means. Use your moderation credentials to become a moderator of a relevant subreddit that is run by an absent moderator. -3- Astroturf account: Start astroturfing - by putting your links on any post that is relevant to your product in the relevant subreddit. -4- Moderator account: Set the spam filter to automatically delete all posts and domains by astroturf users. -5- Moderator account: Approve the deleted spam comments/posts. Now, after that, Reddit won't care if you mark those comments/posts as spam because they have already been identified as spam, but the moderator approved them. To get Reddit to take action in a situation like this, I had to send probably over 20-30 reports. Reddit is making it harder and harder to get in touch with administrators/abuse teams - everything is automated. The key phrase that I think got the issue raised was something like, "I believe these posts/comments violate FCC rules regarding material connection to XYZ.com. Moreover, the relationship between the moderators of the XXX subreddit and the astroturfing accounts violates moderator guidelines and promotion rules."

winternett 4y ago
It's all getting to be so convoluted... The common thread is usually in buying already popular/followed accounts, running platform ads, and subverting everyone else with downvotes so your posts rise to the top... Yikes... I had a sub of my own, and I just kept it set to personal posts, but eventually reddit banned all my associated accounts for cross posting to a music subreddit (first time offense = permanent ban), and that orphaned my subreddit to this day. I refuse to have to resort to wild tactics online just to be visible, even though I could hack things, I also fear that's exactly what will cause me to eventually quit out of a lack of growth.