4 ms·

The costs seem inflated. There are no monthly charges for operating an AIS transponder, which costs about $1000 and is simple to install. The Coast Guard coll

by patja 4y ago

The costs seem inflated. There are no monthly charges for operating an AIS transponder, which costs about $1000 and is simple to install. The Coast Guard collects all AIS track data, and publishes it on a 6 month delay via the NOAA Marine Cadastre program. Maybe the requirement was for some other technology rather than AIS.

doodlebugging 4y ago
I'm not sure what the requirements were but the article claimed in an attempt to bolster the argument that the government was imposing unreasonable costs on charter boat operators that charter boat income was only $26000/year and that seems suspect. Sounds like a lot of unreported income for those charter boats. If I were an auditor I would definitely be booking random fishing trips with the busiest charter boats in these states and double-checking the package cost. Fuel, food, and other things provided on the trip should be easy to cost out so one could determine just how badly these guys are screwing Uncle Sam.
- jcampbell1 4y ago
  It is a seasonal thing to take vacationers fishing. Charge $1000 a trip, maybe fish 80 days a year accounting for weather. After expenses there isn’t much left over. It is a labor of love. How much do you think people who guide people on backpacking camping trips earn? I have been a mate on charter boats. My pay was $100 plus $100 expected tip. The workday was 14 hours long. Any fish caught couldn’t be sold commercially. Taking people out fishing is not a lucrative career but it does provide work for people who lost their jobs commercial fishing.
  - doodlebugging 4y ago
    Using a website where ordinary Joes like myself can book charter boats [0] at various ports from Texas around The GoM to the Atlantic seashore, where the article was focused, doesn't support the article's contention that they do all this work and only make $26000/year. In fact it is a bit preposterous. As a mate onboard you may not get the big bucks but someone is making bank here. As far as backpacking camping trips go if you book through a normal site like through REI [1] they can be pretty expensive depending on duration, destination, etc since there is a lot of logistical stuff that has to be handled. It is not cheap, in the thousands per person for multi-day operations. I have not personally booked a trip like that since I lived in a tent in Nat'l Parks, motel parking lots, KOA or similar campgrounds off and on for several years. I can do my own thing and don't need assistance. Same thing goes for whitewater rafting trips. The costs range from really low for half-day trips to thousands for multi-day trips. A good friend of mine has been river guiding in Idaho since the late 1970's. I would think that if he had been in danger of failing in that business that he would have fallen back on his college degree in the sciences years ago. I have rafted several of the great rivers in the western US and it is fantastic fun. [2] [0] https://fishingbooker.com/ https://fishingbooker.com/ [1] https://www.rei.com/adventures/a/backpacking https://www.rei.com/adventures/a/backpacking [2] https://www.iwuraft.com/ https://www.iwuraft.com/ I don't see that $26000 annual income is relevant for anyone except the lowest paid seasonal guide. That has to be a low number.
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      you would be surprised how cheap some employers get to be .. when you get into other international jurisdictions.. well it appears here regularly that on-board fishing and some cargo ship practices are a modern holdout for actual slavery. Indentured or forced labor has been the norm not the exception, for a very long time in many parts of the world.
      - doodlebugging 4y ago
        I've read about this. Cruise ships, fishing fleets, etc all seem to have an unsavory back story.
    - jcampbell1 4y ago
      It doesn’t say “annual income”, or “annual revenue”. It is “net income” which is not always well defined for small businesses. It is roughly defined as the amount of money you would expect to make running this operation after paying employees. What is the “net income” of owning a subway sandwich franchise? It is not the same concept as employee pay or revenue.
      - doodlebugging 4y ago
        I wasn't trying to argue, just to point out that the numbers make no sense even as an average number across the whole charter industry. Income reported on various websites scatters widely from under $20k to over $300k depending on where you are on the totem pole. With many of these jobs being paid on a day rate I can see where your income potential is limited depending on where you are, which species pass through your area versus the ones that are native and whether you limit yourself to specific species or go any time a client books a trip. Looks like a complex industry. I only have personal experience from one offshore trip out of Coos Bay a long time ago on a boat full of people wanting to fish. We had to book well in advance and it was less than a full day outing. We did catch fish though.
F00Fbug 4y ago
Yeah... not AIS, but NOAA defined VMS (Vessel Monitoring Systems). Not only does it report position, but allows captains to send in their reporting data while at sea, in an electronic format that they could ingest directly into their systems. They also allow "email" and some weather reporting. I led the development of one of these systems from a software standpoint: https://thoriumvms.com/ https://thoriumvms.com/ They're not cheap -- $2K or $3K depending on options and $40ish/month for service. We were reselling Iridium service as the underlying transport. Looks like the bottom just fell out of this business -- glad I'm not relying that for my paycheck anymore!
dieselgate 4y ago
The article specifically mentions GPS and not AIS. But yeah my questions are around AIS - it's such an important safety technology (to at least have a receiver) I'd assume the boats would already be equipped with AIS. And if the boats had a transmitter it would all be seemingly public information anyway (which is the whole point of AIS if I'm not mistaken). But I am glad the charters are not Required to maintain GPS tracking specifically for government monitoring - but in practicality it seems to me it wouldn't make that big of a difference due to overlapping positional monitoring technology.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Things are run as cheap and fast as possible. AIS? They're lucky if they aer It's one of the reasons the job is among the most dangerous in the country. Everyone thinks deferring maintenance and repairs and safety equipment is fine - it'll happen to some other boat, and even if it does happen to them, the coast guard will come and rescue them. That duct tape on the wiring will be fine, that bubblegum plugging a leak will hold, etc. What's particularly infuriating is that fishermen all feel entitled to making a living in fishing, and no matter how unviable it is, they make a huge stink about regulation or fuel prices and beg for handouts from the government and exemption from regulation. "My great grandpappy fished, grandpappy fished, my daddy fished, and now I fish, and my son is gonna fish. Now let me take as much as I want and let my entire family sit on welfare and give me grant money etc while fishing stocks get depleted and my kid won't actually be able to fish because there won't be any fish left."

by patja 4y ago

doodlebugging 4y ago

I'm not sure what the requirements were but the article claimed in an attempt to bolster the argument that the government was imposing unreasonable costs on charter boat operators that charter boat income was only $26000/year and that seems suspect. Sounds like a lot of unreported income for those charter boats. If I were an auditor I would definitely be booking random fishing trips with the busiest charter boats in these states and double-checking the package cost. Fuel, food, and other things provided on the trip should be easy to cost out so one could determine just how badly these guys are screwing Uncle Sam.

jcampbell1 4y ago
It is a seasonal thing to take vacationers fishing. Charge $1000 a trip, maybe fish 80 days a year accounting for weather. After expenses there isn’t much left over. It is a labor of love. How much do you think people who guide people on backpacking camping trips earn? I have been a mate on charter boats. My pay was $100 plus $100 expected tip. The workday was 14 hours long. Any fish caught couldn’t be sold commercially. Taking people out fishing is not a lucrative career but it does provide work for people who lost their jobs commercial fishing.
- doodlebugging 4y ago
  Using a website where ordinary Joes like myself can book charter boats [0] at various ports from Texas around The GoM to the Atlantic seashore, where the article was focused, doesn't support the article's contention that they do all this work and only make $26000/year. In fact it is a bit preposterous. As a mate onboard you may not get the big bucks but someone is making bank here. As far as backpacking camping trips go if you book through a normal site like through REI [1] they can be pretty expensive depending on duration, destination, etc since there is a lot of logistical stuff that has to be handled. It is not cheap, in the thousands per person for multi-day operations. I have not personally booked a trip like that since I lived in a tent in Nat'l Parks, motel parking lots, KOA or similar campgrounds off and on for several years. I can do my own thing and don't need assistance. Same thing goes for whitewater rafting trips. The costs range from really low for half-day trips to thousands for multi-day trips. A good friend of mine has been river guiding in Idaho since the late 1970's. I would think that if he had been in danger of failing in that business that he would have fallen back on his college degree in the sciences years ago. I have rafted several of the great rivers in the western US and it is fantastic fun. [2] [0] https://fishingbooker.com/ https://fishingbooker.com/ [1] https://www.rei.com/adventures/a/backpacking https://www.rei.com/adventures/a/backpacking [2] https://www.iwuraft.com/ https://www.iwuraft.com/ I don't see that $26000 annual income is relevant for anyone except the lowest paid seasonal guide. That has to be a low number.
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    you would be surprised how cheap some employers get to be .. when you get into other international jurisdictions.. well it appears here regularly that on-board fishing and some cargo ship practices are a modern holdout for actual slavery. Indentured or forced labor has been the norm not the exception, for a very long time in many parts of the world.
    - doodlebugging 4y ago
      I've read about this. Cruise ships, fishing fleets, etc all seem to have an unsavory back story.
  - jcampbell1 4y ago
    It doesn’t say “annual income”, or “annual revenue”. It is “net income” which is not always well defined for small businesses. It is roughly defined as the amount of money you would expect to make running this operation after paying employees. What is the “net income” of owning a subway sandwich franchise? It is not the same concept as employee pay or revenue.
    - doodlebugging 4y ago
      I wasn't trying to argue, just to point out that the numbers make no sense even as an average number across the whole charter industry. Income reported on various websites scatters widely from under $20k to over $300k depending on where you are on the totem pole. With many of these jobs being paid on a day rate I can see where your income potential is limited depending on where you are, which species pass through your area versus the ones that are native and whether you limit yourself to specific species or go any time a client books a trip. Looks like a complex industry. I only have personal experience from one offshore trip out of Coos Bay a long time ago on a boat full of people wanting to fish. We had to book well in advance and it was less than a full day outing. We did catch fish though.

F00Fbug 4y ago

Yeah... not AIS, but NOAA defined VMS (Vessel Monitoring Systems). Not only does it report position, but allows captains to send in their reporting data while at sea, in an electronic format that they could ingest directly into their systems. They also allow "email" and some weather reporting. I led the development of one of these systems from a software standpoint: https://thoriumvms.com/ https://thoriumvms.com/ They're not cheap -- $2K or $3K depending on options and $40ish/month for service. We were reselling Iridium service as the underlying transport. Looks like the bottom just fell out of this business -- glad I'm not relying that for my paycheck anymore!

dieselgate 4y ago

The article specifically mentions GPS and not AIS. But yeah my questions are around AIS - it's such an important safety technology (to at least have a receiver) I'd assume the boats would already be equipped with AIS. And if the boats had a transmitter it would all be seemingly public information anyway (which is the whole point of AIS if I'm not mistaken). But I am glad the charters are not Required to maintain GPS tracking specifically for government monitoring - but in practicality it seems to me it wouldn't make that big of a difference due to overlapping positional monitoring technology.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Things are run as cheap and fast as possible. AIS? They're lucky if they aer It's one of the reasons the job is among the most dangerous in the country. Everyone thinks deferring maintenance and repairs and safety equipment is fine - it'll happen to some other boat, and even if it does happen to them, the coast guard will come and rescue them. That duct tape on the wiring will be fine, that bubblegum plugging a leak will hold, etc. What's particularly infuriating is that fishermen all feel entitled to making a living in fishing, and no matter how unviable it is, they make a huge stink about regulation or fuel prices and beg for handouts from the government and exemption from regulation. "My great grandpappy fished, grandpappy fished, my daddy fished, and now I fish, and my son is gonna fish. Now let me take as much as I want and let my entire family sit on welfare and give me grant money etc while fishing stocks get depleted and my kid won't actually be able to fish because there won't be any fish left."