4 ms·

I similarly get bored of Skylines as soon as the game starts handing you near-infinite money. Making something aesthetically pleasing is only so interesting to

I similarly get bored of Skylines as soon as the game starts handing you near-infinite money. Making something aesthetically pleasing is only so interesting to me - I want the challenge of constraints. I actually have a similar problem with the Tropico remakes. Tropico 1 was hard. You could not survive a mission without dipping into the dictator toolsets. So striking a constant balance between economics and human rights was an interesting challenge. (It also made for a much more biting satire). The games since 3 are still pleasant city-builders in their own rights, but make it a bit too easy to win on the straight and narrow.

satvikpendem 4y ago
You could use a game trainer to limit how much money you receive. I usually do the opposite since I hate grinding in a game for virtual money or points, feels like a waste of time for me as compared to working on something cool in the real world.
- db48x 4y ago
  Cities: Skylines has that built in, actually. The more money you have saved up the lower your revenue from taxes is.
namaria 4y ago
Same decay happened in Civilization. Civ4 was a great challenge in terms of making choices and fighting off a somewhat competent (at least enough to make you take it into account) AI. Civ6 seems to be more of a design game after you get past the initial hump a getting some early infrastructure together without going bankrupt or conquered.
nitwit005 4y ago
Almost all simulation games suffer this problem of, well, winning. You'll see complaints that the late game of Civilization 6 is boring, as a sufficient advantage means a winner has been effectively determined. The only fix I can see is to have much better scenarios, or AI opponents, which I tend to think only the external communities around these games can produce. They generally don't allow that level of access for mods though.
- jpetso 4y ago
  I haven't really spent much time on simulation games past SimCity 2000, but I find this odd. Even the most winsome cities and countries in the world are struggling. Instead of scenarios or AI, why wouldn't it be the case that success invites more problems? You've got issues with immigration happening too rapidly for the population's taste, inflation devalues your accumulated resources at a more rapid pace, essential workers' pay isn't keeping up with FAANG, inequality is rampant, lots of homeless druggies appreciating your shelter & food bank infrastructure but locals are fed up, and also the next level up in government works against you out of envy or simple lack of appreciation for you contribution to the public purse. Power structures crumble because citizens get lazy and entitled, not knowing how good they have it, populism and self-interest rule the day. Design success as the enemy of success, and you never run out of issues to solve. That said, it would be nice to see the winning endgame in real life for a change.
  - nitwit005 4y ago
    > Design success as the enemy of success, and you never run out of issues to solve. And a game almost everyone will hate, as it slaps you in the face and spits on you for succeeding.
    - morsch 4y ago
      I'm sure you could design it in a way that people wouldn't mind. Most games get harder as you succeed at them. Rimworld is a builder game that does it. And not just through increased complexity, but by making the environment more hostile. Having a dynamic environment is one of the things that I've long wanted city sims to have. SimCity always had disasters, which is in the same vein, but they always felt like an afterthought (or a joke, in the case of alien or monster attacks). City simulations pretend to be serious flaw toys, so let me deal with a recession (or even a boom), or a dioxine contamination, or civil unrest. Not with a minigame, but let me deal with the city management aspects of those events.
gpetukhov 4y ago
Exactly. It's essentially a sandbox city builder with some highway optimisation thrown in. SimCities 4 was more fun because it was more challenging and felt more like a game, rather than a sandbox. There are so many interesting gameplay things Skylines could do to be more fun for me like: 1. Subway optimization, e.g faster train cost more but people get to their destination faster, slower trains allow for shorter distances between stations. 2. Parking optimization, e.g. building with parking costs more (because more land has to be bought), but allows people to travel to the place in 3. Low vs high taxes, nanny state or pure capitalism? How would that affect the economy and people's satisfaction?

satvikpendem 4y ago

You could use a game trainer to limit how much money you receive. I usually do the opposite since I hate grinding in a game for virtual money or points, feels like a waste of time for me as compared to working on something cool in the real world.

db48x 4y ago
Cities: Skylines has that built in, actually. The more money you have saved up the lower your revenue from taxes is.

namaria 4y ago

Same decay happened in Civilization. Civ4 was a great challenge in terms of making choices and fighting off a somewhat competent (at least enough to make you take it into account) AI. Civ6 seems to be more of a design game after you get past the initial hump a getting some early infrastructure together without going bankrupt or conquered.

nitwit005 4y ago

Almost all simulation games suffer this problem of, well, winning. You'll see complaints that the late game of Civilization 6 is boring, as a sufficient advantage means a winner has been effectively determined. The only fix I can see is to have much better scenarios, or AI opponents, which I tend to think only the external communities around these games can produce. They generally don't allow that level of access for mods though.

jpetso 4y ago
I haven't really spent much time on simulation games past SimCity 2000, but I find this odd. Even the most winsome cities and countries in the world are struggling. Instead of scenarios or AI, why wouldn't it be the case that success invites more problems? You've got issues with immigration happening too rapidly for the population's taste, inflation devalues your accumulated resources at a more rapid pace, essential workers' pay isn't keeping up with FAANG, inequality is rampant, lots of homeless druggies appreciating your shelter & food bank infrastructure but locals are fed up, and also the next level up in government works against you out of envy or simple lack of appreciation for you contribution to the public purse. Power structures crumble because citizens get lazy and entitled, not knowing how good they have it, populism and self-interest rule the day. Design success as the enemy of success, and you never run out of issues to solve. That said, it would be nice to see the winning endgame in real life for a change.
- nitwit005 4y ago
  > Design success as the enemy of success, and you never run out of issues to solve. And a game almost everyone will hate, as it slaps you in the face and spits on you for succeeding.
  - morsch 4y ago
    I'm sure you could design it in a way that people wouldn't mind. Most games get harder as you succeed at them. Rimworld is a builder game that does it. And not just through increased complexity, but by making the environment more hostile. Having a dynamic environment is one of the things that I've long wanted city sims to have. SimCity always had disasters, which is in the same vein, but they always felt like an afterthought (or a joke, in the case of alien or monster attacks). City simulations pretend to be serious flaw toys, so let me deal with a recession (or even a boom), or a dioxine contamination, or civil unrest. Not with a minigame, but let me deal with the city management aspects of those events.

gpetukhov 4y ago

Exactly. It's essentially a sandbox city builder with some highway optimisation thrown in. SimCities 4 was more fun because it was more challenging and felt more like a game, rather than a sandbox. There are so many interesting gameplay things Skylines could do to be more fun for me like: 1. Subway optimization, e.g faster train cost more but people get to their destination faster, slower trains allow for shorter distances between stations. 2. Parking optimization, e.g. building with parking costs more (because more land has to be bought), but allows people to travel to the place in 3. Low vs high taxes, nanny state or pure capitalism? How would that affect the economy and people's satisfaction?