4 ms·

Using automata is a bit silly and has problems. The biggest problems are vacuum welding and lack of lubrication. Vacuum welding can cause higher wear or even fa

by gene-h 4y ago

Using automata is a bit silly and has problems. The biggest problems are vacuum welding and lack of lubrication. Vacuum welding can cause higher wear or even failure on metal components. Gears and cams absolutely need lubrication, which is liable to evaporation in a vacuum or requires exotic elements such as molybdenum. Gears and cams also need to be machined, and machining processes do not work well in a vacuum for some of the same reasons mentioned above. That being said, one ton of microchips goes a long way. Why bother with automata, when simple vacuum tubes(in space, a vacuum tube is a couple funny shaped pieces of metal in close proximity) and magnetic amplifiers could be used to amplify signals from microcontrollers into something capable of doing useful work?

kwhitefoot 4y ago
> exotic elements such as molybdenum. What? Molybdenum disulphide grease is available everywhere.
- gene-h 4y ago
  On asteroids it will be harder to obtain. It's been found to be present in iron meteorites at about 30 ppm[0]. [0]https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.013.206 https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.013.206
- shagie 4y ago
  It's not "exotic" in that it isn't used (it has major industrial Uses) but rather that it is one of the less common materials in the crust. It's less common than many of the "rare earth" elements and less common than uranium (Uranium is the 49th most common element while Molybdenum is the 58th depending on source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth... ).
  - kwhitefoot 4y ago
    According to your source it is 20th in terms of annual production. Ahead of tungsten and vanadium and a lot of other often used elements like silver.
Teever 4y ago
Why not just move the asteroid or pieces of the asteroid into a pressurized environment?
- m0llusk 4y ago
  Because of the large scale and also because that would be an extra step. This methodology works best if the problem of construction in space has some solution.
  - Teever 4y ago
    Is it an extra step? Like a lot of this stuff is going to end up being used by humans in space so it needs to be pressurized at some point. It doesn't even need to be anywhere near full pressure or breathable gas either.
balaji1 4y ago
Can they build a demo on earth? Maybe reshape a small hill-side into something fun or pretty with "Autonomous Restructuring". That would be fun to watch.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Can they build a demo on earth? Maybe reshape a small hill-side into something fun or pretty with "Autonomous Restructuring". That would be fun to watch. If you are restructuring an asteroid, containment isn’t much of a problem; if you want to do it to an isolated site on earth, it is more of a concern.
  - balaji1 4y ago
    what is containment?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Containment is to stop the "turn everything into grey goo" robots from considering "Earth" to be part of "everything".
      - balaji1 4y ago
        Oh lol we can handle a few sand-castle building robots. ChatGPT on the other hand...
        singleshot_ 4y ago
        Killdozer would like a word with you, sir.
foobarian 4y ago
> in space, a vacuum tube is a couple funny shaped pieces of metal in close proximity I can't believe this never occurred to me before. The possibilities are staggering :-)
- xen2xen1 4y ago
  Author George O Smith went into great detail about space and vacuum tubes. Actually remember it as a great read.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  Yeah... there will probably be less fouling, too, because most of the metal vapour will just float away. So the "tubes" should last longer, too.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    Just spitballing: in a use case like TFA, building pieces and structures in/around an asteroid, would they not be subject to fouling by dust and debris from the processes going on around them?
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      Yes sure, but you can still do a lot of interesting stuff without having a lot of radio tubes. You can put up a thin "shield" some meters away. Stuff doesn't have to be very rigid in many cases if it's built "in situ" in space.
      - Arrath 4y ago
        Thanks!
- dtgriscom 4y ago
  I think you would still need the glass envelopes to prevent electrons roaming between devices.

by gene-h 4y ago

kwhitefoot 4y ago

> exotic elements such as molybdenum. What? Molybdenum disulphide grease is available everywhere.

gene-h 4y ago
On asteroids it will be harder to obtain. It's been found to be present in iron meteorites at about 30 ppm[0]. [0]https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.013.206 https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.013.206
shagie 4y ago
It's not "exotic" in that it isn't used (it has major industrial Uses) but rather that it is one of the less common materials in the crust. It's less common than many of the "rare earth" elements and less common than uranium (Uranium is the 49th most common element while Molybdenum is the 58th depending on source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth... ).
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  According to your source it is 20th in terms of annual production. Ahead of tungsten and vanadium and a lot of other often used elements like silver.

Teever 4y ago

Why not just move the asteroid or pieces of the asteroid into a pressurized environment?

m0llusk 4y ago
Because of the large scale and also because that would be an extra step. This methodology works best if the problem of construction in space has some solution.
- Teever 4y ago
  Is it an extra step? Like a lot of this stuff is going to end up being used by humans in space so it needs to be pressurized at some point. It doesn't even need to be anywhere near full pressure or breathable gas either.

balaji1 4y ago

Can they build a demo on earth? Maybe reshape a small hill-side into something fun or pretty with "Autonomous Restructuring". That would be fun to watch.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Can they build a demo on earth? Maybe reshape a small hill-side into something fun or pretty with "Autonomous Restructuring". That would be fun to watch. If you are restructuring an asteroid, containment isn’t much of a problem; if you want to do it to an isolated site on earth, it is more of a concern.
- balaji1 4y ago
  what is containment?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Containment is to stop the "turn everything into grey goo" robots from considering "Earth" to be part of "everything".
    - balaji1 4y ago
      Oh lol we can handle a few sand-castle building robots. ChatGPT on the other hand...
      - singleshot_ 4y ago
        Killdozer would like a word with you, sir.

foobarian 4y ago

> in space, a vacuum tube is a couple funny shaped pieces of metal in close proximity I can't believe this never occurred to me before. The possibilities are staggering :-)

xen2xen1 4y ago
Author George O Smith went into great detail about space and vacuum tubes. Actually remember it as a great read.
actionfromafar 4y ago
Yeah... there will probably be less fouling, too, because most of the metal vapour will just float away. So the "tubes" should last longer, too.
- Arrath 4y ago
  Just spitballing: in a use case like TFA, building pieces and structures in/around an asteroid, would they not be subject to fouling by dust and debris from the processes going on around them?
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Yes sure, but you can still do a lot of interesting stuff without having a lot of radio tubes. You can put up a thin "shield" some meters away. Stuff doesn't have to be very rigid in many cases if it's built "in situ" in space.
    - Arrath 4y ago
      Thanks!
dtgriscom 4y ago
I think you would still need the glass envelopes to prevent electrons roaming between devices.