4 ms·

What kind of observer is 1. able to listen to the entirety of your network's outside communications, 2. interested at all in it, 3. harm you only on the conditi

What kind of observer is 1. able to listen to the entirety of your network's outside communications, 2. interested at all in it, 3. harm you only on the condition that they "map out" your internal infrastructure? This isn't a novel, the goal is not to solve intricate security non-problems.

waych 4y ago
"The network is secure" is a common fallacy.
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  "Those who don't know what to say quote adages" is a common saying.
  - __d 4y ago
    A common saying that ... invalidates itself?
  - waych 4y ago
    ?? There is a whole industry built around network traffic analysis. What makes you think it doesn't happen on the internet?
Spivak 4y ago
Your ISP, "mapping your network" means being able to take data that was previously an amalgam of a household and reliably split it into the individual members and devices for better targeting.
- kmbfjr 4y ago
  Take a moment and learn about Nokia’s Deepfield or Kintec. The ISPs have the ability to see what is on your network by IPv4 egress. They have been able to do this for a decade. Worrying that an IPv6 address divulges the network forgets that IPv4 devices betray their existence through DNS, their destinations and other network behavior. The ISPs know.
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  Unless you're part of the tiny percent of people who run their own router, your ISP can just monitor what goes through your ISP-provided router.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    With the home router+wifi market estimated to be USD 2070.43 million in 2022, I wouldn't say it's a tiny percentage of people, just people you know.
    - justeleblanc 4y ago
      1. Where does this stat come from? 2. You can't say anything about the percentage with just the absolute market value. At the very least you need something else to compare it too. Please, be serious.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        A reader who's actually interested in getting the source, might try Googling for "2070.43", or even "2070.43 million wifi". I must admit, I wasn't serious enough about my comment to spend $3,250 on the whole report, and had to go off of the public preview. Since you seem to be more serious, maybe you could pay the $4,400 for a multi-user licensed copy of the report and share the PDF with me? I'd love to read more of the analysis. So, I mean, I dunno, 2 billion dollars seems serious to me, but maybe we just have different barometers for what counts as "serious amounts of money". Especially considering these devices that are like $300. Finally, might I remind you of the guidelines? in particular: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - bert64 4y ago
      Most people don't buy their own router, the ISPs bulk buy thousands of routers at a time. The ISPs make up most of the market. Many of these routers are managed by the ISP using protocols such as TR-069, several ISPs have already been found to not only manage the devices but also monitor certain data including what devices are present.

waych 4y ago

"The network is secure" is a common fallacy.

justeleblanc 4y ago
"Those who don't know what to say quote adages" is a common saying.
- __d 4y ago
  A common saying that ... invalidates itself?
- waych 4y ago
  ?? There is a whole industry built around network traffic analysis. What makes you think it doesn't happen on the internet?

Spivak 4y ago

Your ISP, "mapping your network" means being able to take data that was previously an amalgam of a household and reliably split it into the individual members and devices for better targeting.

kmbfjr 4y ago
Take a moment and learn about Nokia’s Deepfield or Kintec. The ISPs have the ability to see what is on your network by IPv4 egress. They have been able to do this for a decade. Worrying that an IPv6 address divulges the network forgets that IPv4 devices betray their existence through DNS, their destinations and other network behavior. The ISPs know.
justeleblanc 4y ago
Unless you're part of the tiny percent of people who run their own router, your ISP can just monitor what goes through your ISP-provided router.
- zamnos 4y ago
  With the home router+wifi market estimated to be USD 2070.43 million in 2022, I wouldn't say it's a tiny percentage of people, just people you know.
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    1. Where does this stat come from? 2. You can't say anything about the percentage with just the absolute market value. At the very least you need something else to compare it too. Please, be serious.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      A reader who's actually interested in getting the source, might try Googling for "2070.43", or even "2070.43 million wifi". I must admit, I wasn't serious enough about my comment to spend $3,250 on the whole report, and had to go off of the public preview. Since you seem to be more serious, maybe you could pay the $4,400 for a multi-user licensed copy of the report and share the PDF with me? I'd love to read more of the analysis. So, I mean, I dunno, 2 billion dollars seems serious to me, but maybe we just have different barometers for what counts as "serious amounts of money". Especially considering these devices that are like $300. Finally, might I remind you of the guidelines? in particular: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - bert64 4y ago
    Most people don't buy their own router, the ISPs bulk buy thousands of routers at a time. The ISPs make up most of the market. Many of these routers are managed by the ISP using protocols such as TR-069, several ISPs have already been found to not only manage the devices but also monitor certain data including what devices are present.