5 ms·

I guess if you are on a visa. There are some "office heroes" there for sure, and they will probably realize years later that they were abused.

by papito 4y ago

MrOwnPut 4y ago
So they don't realize now they are being abused even though they have first hand experience, but you realize they are being abused because you have what insight exactly? In other words, what exactly do you think the people working there will "realize years later"? Could you specifically list the abuses being done to these engineers that they are unaware of?
- thebradbain 4y ago
  Usually people choose to stay in abusive situations because they don’t believe they’re being abused, or have convinced themselves they have no better option. That doesn’t change the fact the environment is still abusive. There’s a whole swaths of science and research behind this. It’s why domestic violence can continue for years unknown to anyone, even from friends, until it’s not. OP isn’t saying they’re being abused as a fact, but if they are — at a workplace that seems as objectively toxic as Twitter right now — many who are still there won’t likely realize they were until afterwards.
  - MrOwnPut 4y ago
    > Usually people choose to stay in abusive situations because they don’t believe they’re being abused I simply asked OP to list the abuses they think the engineers are unaware of. > OP isn’t saying they’re being abused as a fact, OP literally said "It would feel amazing after this much abuse"
    - thebradbain 4y ago
      My bad, I meant OP in regards to whom you directly responded to (emphasis mine) > they will _probably realize_ years later that they were abused.
      - MrOwnPut 4y ago
        Yes that's the same person I quoted, "papito". Their "probably" was about them probably realizing, not probably being abused. OP was absolute in their accusation of abuse in his above post that I quoted. That's why I asked them for specific examples.
systemvoltage 4y ago
> It would feel amazing after this much abuse. This much abuse. What abuse? Can you tell us more in detail?
- supriyo-biswas 4y ago
  They make for a shitty work environment for everyone - anyone who wants to set up healthy boundaries between work and life would be let go, thus eventually reducing worker rights.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    No one is in shackles. They make like $300k in compensation. It's a free country, workers can go wherever they want. Free labor market. What if, just what if, the workers actually like working hard and making their lives better? That seems to never enter the conversation here. Honestly, the culture on HN makes workers like me more resentful. It's 100% negative, there is absolutely 0% optimism in these threads. Not even one comment here (or elsewhere on HN).
    - smcl 4y ago
      They all make $300k and can all go wherever they want and do whatever they want? Are you certain that is the case? > ... like working hard and making their lives better It's true that work can be very rewarding - "Find a job you enjoy doing, and you will never have to work a day in your life" and all that. Plus who doesn't like making their lives better? I guess it is up to the reader to decide whether a job in Musk-era Twitter is one of those jobs, and whether working for the new "hardcore" Twitter would make your life better. I can only speak for myself but if I worked somewhere and I saw that after a takeover: - half of my colleagues got fired one day - some people occasionally get fired for on-the-spot violations like answering a CEO's question - the company went from nearly-profitable to incredibly unprofitable (let’s even ignore how it got that way) - the company stopped paying some bills and were kicked out of some offices and services - the owner-and-CEO had become an extremely ... divisive figure, shall we say - the owner-and-CEO declares that the existing product is brittle and broken and needs a ground-up "2.0" rewrite (a second system so to speak...) ... then I wouldn't see this as some wonderful opportunity, I'd see it as my workplace being turned into a plaything for a tempestuous billionaire who might not be as competent as he wants us to believe. And if I was a wealthy and financially-secure US permanent resident looking at a buoyant jobs market then I'd probably leave, take a bit of a breather then start looking for a new job at a different company. However if any one of those things didn't hold (maybe I'm an H1B visa holder, maybe I am young and don't have much savings or experience, maybe the job market kinda sucks, maybe I have am the sole earner in my family) I'd be in a much different and more depressing situation - maybe not literally "in shackles" but certainly not as free as you are suggesting.

I guess if you are on a visa. There are some "office heroes" there for sure, and they will probably realize years later that they were abused.

by papito 4y ago

I guess if you are on a visa. There are some "office heroes" there for sure, and they will probably realize years later that they were abused.

MrOwnPut 4y ago

So they don't realize now they are being abused even though they have first hand experience, but you realize they are being abused because you have what insight exactly? In other words, what exactly do you think the people working there will "realize years later"? Could you specifically list the abuses being done to these engineers that they are unaware of?

thebradbain 4y ago
Usually people choose to stay in abusive situations because they don’t believe they’re being abused, or have convinced themselves they have no better option. That doesn’t change the fact the environment is still abusive. There’s a whole swaths of science and research behind this. It’s why domestic violence can continue for years unknown to anyone, even from friends, until it’s not. OP isn’t saying they’re being abused as a fact, but if they are — at a workplace that seems as objectively toxic as Twitter right now — many who are still there won’t likely realize they were until afterwards.
- MrOwnPut 4y ago
  > Usually people choose to stay in abusive situations because they don’t believe they’re being abused I simply asked OP to list the abuses they think the engineers are unaware of. > OP isn’t saying they’re being abused as a fact, OP literally said "It would feel amazing after this much abuse"
  - thebradbain 4y ago
    My bad, I meant OP in regards to whom you directly responded to (emphasis mine) > they will _probably realize_ years later that they were abused.
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      Yes that's the same person I quoted, "papito". Their "probably" was about them probably realizing, not probably being abused. OP was absolute in their accusation of abuse in his above post that I quoted. That's why I asked them for specific examples.

systemvoltage 4y ago

> It would feel amazing after this much abuse. This much abuse. What abuse? Can you tell us more in detail?

supriyo-biswas 4y ago
They make for a shitty work environment for everyone - anyone who wants to set up healthy boundaries between work and life would be let go, thus eventually reducing worker rights.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  No one is in shackles. They make like $300k in compensation. It's a free country, workers can go wherever they want. Free labor market. What if, just what if, the workers actually like working hard and making their lives better? That seems to never enter the conversation here. Honestly, the culture on HN makes workers like me more resentful. It's 100% negative, there is absolutely 0% optimism in these threads. Not even one comment here (or elsewhere on HN).
  - smcl 4y ago
    They all make $300k and can all go wherever they want and do whatever they want? Are you certain that is the case? > ... like working hard and making their lives better It's true that work can be very rewarding - "Find a job you enjoy doing, and you will never have to work a day in your life" and all that. Plus who doesn't like making their lives better? I guess it is up to the reader to decide whether a job in Musk-era Twitter is one of those jobs, and whether working for the new "hardcore" Twitter would make your life better. I can only speak for myself but if I worked somewhere and I saw that after a takeover: - half of my colleagues got fired one day - some people occasionally get fired for on-the-spot violations like answering a CEO's question - the company went from nearly-profitable to incredibly unprofitable (let’s even ignore how it got that way) - the company stopped paying some bills and were kicked out of some offices and services - the owner-and-CEO had become an extremely ... divisive figure, shall we say - the owner-and-CEO declares that the existing product is brittle and broken and needs a ground-up "2.0" rewrite (a second system so to speak...) ... then I wouldn't see this as some wonderful opportunity, I'd see it as my workplace being turned into a plaything for a tempestuous billionaire who might not be as competent as he wants us to believe. And if I was a wealthy and financially-secure US permanent resident looking at a buoyant jobs market then I'd probably leave, take a bit of a breather then start looking for a new job at a different company. However if any one of those things didn't hold (maybe I'm an H1B visa holder, maybe I am young and don't have much savings or experience, maybe the job market kinda sucks, maybe I have am the sole earner in my family) I'd be in a much different and more depressing situation - maybe not literally "in shackles" but certainly not as free as you are suggesting.