5 ms·

Try the search engine kagi.com It just works. Google stopped being a search company, and is an advertisement company now.

thefourthchime 4y ago
I tried my test search "California style burrito in Austin" and the first page was entirely reddit results. Clicking over to "map" resulted in a single wrong result. phind.com and new bing do this better.
- georgehill 4y ago
  I tried the same query using phind.com, still the most answers came from reddit. https://www.phind.com/search?cache=5a93485f-b029-45bf-ade1-b70a77c76a3a https://www.phind.com/search?cache=5a93485f-b029-45bf-ade1-b...
kjs3 4y ago
Must create account to use a search engine. Hard Nope.
- mmcdermott 4y ago
  I find the syllogism here a little hard to follow, because here is what the first bit looks like to me: 1. Web search is useful, both for work/productivity and recreation. 2. Running servers to index the internet is a scale of compute beyond the effort and expense of most or all of home users. 3. Web search has distinct economies of scale when applied. 4. Said economies must be funded in some way. 5. There are two proposed models: ad-supported and subscription. 6. We do not like the effects of ad-support in the context of Google. So the options are to either choose a different add-supported method (with the understanding that it may well meet Google's fate) or else pay for the product directly (subscription). Frankly, the only reason I haven't signed up for something like this is that DuckDuckGo has been good enough for me lately. It might not always be, but it has been so far. So I take the view after step 6 that, for the time being, I'm willing to jump from ad supported platform to ad supported platform, but I say that while admitting I'm a bad search stretch away from switching.
  - Version467 4y ago
    In case you need a nudge from another very happy kagi user, consider trying it out. I used kagi for a few months when it was still in beta (and thus free) and had to decide if I wanted to pay for it to keep using it, or go back to ad supported internet search. After wincing at the price for a bit I realised that my expectations for how much search should cost were all based on free ad supported search engines. The value I derive from a good search engine is enormous, and easily visible if you imagine the internet without it. This makes paying for kagi a nobrainer. Their search results are really good and they have an incentive to keep it that way. It's a solid product, with a great value proposition (if you recalibrate your expectation) and I am also regularly reminded that this is how to actually vote with your wallet. I feel like we need kagi (or something like it) to succeed. If it turns out that paid search is not a viable business, then what chance do we have left for a search engine that has its intentions aligned with its users? But it's first and foremost a great experience. Fast, great results, clean layout and a bunch of nice user-centric features on top. The idealism just helps to accept a cost.
    - disqard 4y ago
      Seconding (as a paying consumer) -- sign up for a month and try the experience for yourself. It shows you the alternative Internet (ad-free, spam free, SEO-crap listicles not on the results page) that everyone here is constantly carping about missing. If you want this reality, pay for it to help it exist. Else, put up with ads.
  - thewebcount 4y ago
    > 5. There are two proposed models: ad-supported and subscription. For the record, there are many other possible models. (I realize you may be saying that in this thread there are 2 proposed models, but I want to say this because people here seem to think there are only ever 2 possibilities.) Some other models include: 1. Patronage ala public radio/TV where you are asked to pay for it, but don't have to. If enough people do, everyone can use it for free. (Wikipedia, one of the top 10 sites on the internet by traffic, works this way.) 2. Donations (probably not viable for most businesses, but sometimes works out) 3. Partially or fully funded by some other business which benefits from people using it. For example, if Apple wanted to start their own search engine without ads, but that only worked with their devices, they could probably figure out a way to do that and they would make money from selling the devices, and not ads on the search engine. (Not that they wouldn't try to have ads, too these days. Ugh.) 4. Pay as you go - instead of a subscription that is recurring even if you don't use the product and that you eventually forget about, you just pay whenever you actually use it and pay for only as much as you use. Not sure it work with a search engine, but nobody's ever tried, so it's hard to say. 5. Government funded. I realize this would rub people the wrong way, but a government search engine funded by tax payer dollars that had no ads could be very useful if done correctly. You just wouldn't want to use it to look up illegal things. (And it doesn't necessarily have to be the Federal government. A state government might benefit from running it, as well.) Edited to add: For the record, I pay for and use Kagi and love it.
- francis-io 4y ago
  Isn't this the exact problem? How can websites stay afloat unless you pay for it in one way or another? I guess the choice is buy the product or be the product. I've been paying for Kagi for 8 months and it's been fine for me. I can live with it in a way I could never live with DDG.
- kjs3 4y ago
  Ah...it's not at all clear from the Kagi front page that it's a pay service. That does change things.

thefourthchime 4y ago

I tried my test search "California style burrito in Austin" and the first page was entirely reddit results. Clicking over to "map" resulted in a single wrong result. phind.com and new bing do this better.

georgehill 4y ago
I tried the same query using phind.com, still the most answers came from reddit. https://www.phind.com/search?cache=5a93485f-b029-45bf-ade1-b70a77c76a3a https://www.phind.com/search?cache=5a93485f-b029-45bf-ade1-b...

kjs3 4y ago

Must create account to use a search engine. Hard Nope.

mmcdermott 4y ago
I find the syllogism here a little hard to follow, because here is what the first bit looks like to me: 1. Web search is useful, both for work/productivity and recreation. 2. Running servers to index the internet is a scale of compute beyond the effort and expense of most or all of home users. 3. Web search has distinct economies of scale when applied. 4. Said economies must be funded in some way. 5. There are two proposed models: ad-supported and subscription. 6. We do not like the effects of ad-support in the context of Google. So the options are to either choose a different add-supported method (with the understanding that it may well meet Google's fate) or else pay for the product directly (subscription). Frankly, the only reason I haven't signed up for something like this is that DuckDuckGo has been good enough for me lately. It might not always be, but it has been so far. So I take the view after step 6 that, for the time being, I'm willing to jump from ad supported platform to ad supported platform, but I say that while admitting I'm a bad search stretch away from switching.
- Version467 4y ago
  In case you need a nudge from another very happy kagi user, consider trying it out. I used kagi for a few months when it was still in beta (and thus free) and had to decide if I wanted to pay for it to keep using it, or go back to ad supported internet search. After wincing at the price for a bit I realised that my expectations for how much search should cost were all based on free ad supported search engines. The value I derive from a good search engine is enormous, and easily visible if you imagine the internet without it. This makes paying for kagi a nobrainer. Their search results are really good and they have an incentive to keep it that way. It's a solid product, with a great value proposition (if you recalibrate your expectation) and I am also regularly reminded that this is how to actually vote with your wallet. I feel like we need kagi (or something like it) to succeed. If it turns out that paid search is not a viable business, then what chance do we have left for a search engine that has its intentions aligned with its users? But it's first and foremost a great experience. Fast, great results, clean layout and a bunch of nice user-centric features on top. The idealism just helps to accept a cost.
  - disqard 4y ago
    Seconding (as a paying consumer) -- sign up for a month and try the experience for yourself. It shows you the alternative Internet (ad-free, spam free, SEO-crap listicles not on the results page) that everyone here is constantly carping about missing. If you want this reality, pay for it to help it exist. Else, put up with ads.
- thewebcount 4y ago
  > 5. There are two proposed models: ad-supported and subscription. For the record, there are many other possible models. (I realize you may be saying that in this thread there are 2 proposed models, but I want to say this because people here seem to think there are only ever 2 possibilities.) Some other models include: 1. Patronage ala public radio/TV where you are asked to pay for it, but don't have to. If enough people do, everyone can use it for free. (Wikipedia, one of the top 10 sites on the internet by traffic, works this way.) 2. Donations (probably not viable for most businesses, but sometimes works out) 3. Partially or fully funded by some other business which benefits from people using it. For example, if Apple wanted to start their own search engine without ads, but that only worked with their devices, they could probably figure out a way to do that and they would make money from selling the devices, and not ads on the search engine. (Not that they wouldn't try to have ads, too these days. Ugh.) 4. Pay as you go - instead of a subscription that is recurring even if you don't use the product and that you eventually forget about, you just pay whenever you actually use it and pay for only as much as you use. Not sure it work with a search engine, but nobody's ever tried, so it's hard to say. 5. Government funded. I realize this would rub people the wrong way, but a government search engine funded by tax payer dollars that had no ads could be very useful if done correctly. You just wouldn't want to use it to look up illegal things. (And it doesn't necessarily have to be the Federal government. A state government might benefit from running it, as well.) Edited to add: For the record, I pay for and use Kagi and love it.
francis-io 4y ago
Isn't this the exact problem? How can websites stay afloat unless you pay for it in one way or another? I guess the choice is buy the product or be the product. I've been paying for Kagi for 8 months and it's been fine for me. I can live with it in a way I could never live with DDG.
kjs3 4y ago
Ah...it's not at all clear from the Kagi front page that it's a pay service. That does change things.