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CS is a poor replacement for the otherwise incredible game that is sim city 4. The issue being that the traffic and population simulation engine in CS isnt very

CS is a poor replacement for the otherwise incredible game that is sim city 4. The issue being that the traffic and population simulation engine in CS isnt very good. There are still modders and a very active community for SC4 for that reason alone. Reminds me, I need to install some city again

etempleton 4y ago
I find that CS does a good job with road construction and design and I think the traffic simulation is largely on par with Sim City 4. Other parts of the simulation are weaker and the game really doesn't have much challenge as a city management game. It is a better sandbox though.
- ekidd 4y ago
  I might go so far as to say C:S is a traffic and transportation simulator. The city building parts are all there, and they're reasonably fun. But the ultimate limiting factor with my cities was transportation. No matter how much I worked on mass transit, I couldn't get more than 80-90% of my citizens to use it, and the remaining cars eventually choked even fancy road systems into tailbacks and gridlock. To be fair, this is a problem with real cities, too.
  - distances 4y ago
    My solution was to remove all roads to outside world. Only railway links allowed, and for those a strict separation of passenger and cargo tracks. Not very realistic, but it's an utopia roughly matching what I would prefer so works well for my cities.
    - etempleton 4y ago
      This solution also worked in the original SimCity. No roads, no traffic.
      - mcv 4y ago
        A walkable city, then.
  - etempleton 4y ago
    In Cities Skylines every car takes the theoretically fastest route to get to their destination. This is somewhat realistic as this is how most people IRL determine which way to drive as well, however the cars will follow this even when it is clear that the route they will take will have a major backup or congestion and another route is only marginally slower and will be completely empty. Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, drivers don't reroute when a direction slows. They will stick with the route they are going until they get to their destination.
  - cstejerean 4y ago
    Sounds pretty realistic then. I remember reading somewhere that NYC is around ~60% public transportation, and Hong Kong is around 70-80% public transportation. So maxing out around 80-90% in the game doesn't sound too outrageous. Unless you just get rid of roads entirely, which I'm sure would be a popular idea on HN.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Mods can help a but, but 80-90% using mass transit is pretty impressive. The main problem with the simulator is "shortest pathing" but the mods can help fix that.
- mustacheemperor 4y ago
  Comparison/discussion of Simcity 4's traffic simulation really requires considering the Network Addon Mod, IMO. It's been in development for years and adds an extraordinary level of sophistication and interactivity to the traffic simulation. It also considerably raises the game's system requirements, but I think SC4+NAM is still the best city management simulation ever built, by a long shot. I sunk a lot of time into Cities Skylines too, but the simulation has too many fundamental flaws under the hood. Drivers don't make proper use of turning lanes. Everyone moves in at the same time at the same age to new residential zones, and then dies at the same time. Etc. It's a good game, but the underlying simulation is hamstrung. I'd agree it's a more enjoyable "paint a city" sandbox, but trying to challenge myself with it as a game the way I did with SC4 doesn't feel as satisfying.
  - freitzkriesler2 4y ago
    Thanks for mentioning this. NAM is really a requirement for Sc4 at this point.
dncornholio 4y ago
I agree that CS doesn't rub the sweetspot like the original Simcity did.
nwallin 4y ago
> The issue being that the traffic and population simulation engine in CS isnt very good. IMHO C:S is only playable if you use the TM:PE mod. (Traffic Manager:Presidential Edition) It gives you the tools to completely solve the traffic problems. Whether this is an argument for or against your point is a matter of perspective.
- freitzkriesler2 4y ago
  Thanks for this recommendation. I'll give CS a retry if this mod puts the traffic and pop sim on par with sc4.
  - nwallin 4y ago
    It won't change anything about the population sim, just traffic. There exist other mods that change the population sim; I'm not familiar with them. C:S mods ... well there's a ton of them. It's a pretty deep rabbit hole.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      There's a "realistic population mod" but depending on how you use it it just ands some multipliers. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025147082 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=20251... Note that it is VERY easy to make the game impossible with this mod, and to make it painfully easy.
mortenjorck 4y ago
The thing that always held CS back for me was the UI. I reinstalled it again recently to see if some five years of patches since the last time I’d played might have given Paradox time to hire some professional game UI designers, but I left disappointed. Compared to the sophistication of Maxis' UIs twenty years ago, CS' clunky interactions, awkward visual hierarchy, and downright amateurish typography are indeed a poor replacement.

etempleton 4y ago

I find that CS does a good job with road construction and design and I think the traffic simulation is largely on par with Sim City 4. Other parts of the simulation are weaker and the game really doesn't have much challenge as a city management game. It is a better sandbox though.

ekidd 4y ago
I might go so far as to say C:S is a traffic and transportation simulator. The city building parts are all there, and they're reasonably fun. But the ultimate limiting factor with my cities was transportation. No matter how much I worked on mass transit, I couldn't get more than 80-90% of my citizens to use it, and the remaining cars eventually choked even fancy road systems into tailbacks and gridlock. To be fair, this is a problem with real cities, too.
- distances 4y ago
  My solution was to remove all roads to outside world. Only railway links allowed, and for those a strict separation of passenger and cargo tracks. Not very realistic, but it's an utopia roughly matching what I would prefer so works well for my cities.
  - etempleton 4y ago
    This solution also worked in the original SimCity. No roads, no traffic.
    - mcv 4y ago
      A walkable city, then.
- etempleton 4y ago
  In Cities Skylines every car takes the theoretically fastest route to get to their destination. This is somewhat realistic as this is how most people IRL determine which way to drive as well, however the cars will follow this even when it is clear that the route they will take will have a major backup or congestion and another route is only marginally slower and will be completely empty. Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, drivers don't reroute when a direction slows. They will stick with the route they are going until they get to their destination.
- cstejerean 4y ago
  Sounds pretty realistic then. I remember reading somewhere that NYC is around ~60% public transportation, and Hong Kong is around 70-80% public transportation. So maxing out around 80-90% in the game doesn't sound too outrageous. Unless you just get rid of roads entirely, which I'm sure would be a popular idea on HN.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Mods can help a but, but 80-90% using mass transit is pretty impressive. The main problem with the simulator is "shortest pathing" but the mods can help fix that.
mustacheemperor 4y ago
Comparison/discussion of Simcity 4's traffic simulation really requires considering the Network Addon Mod, IMO. It's been in development for years and adds an extraordinary level of sophistication and interactivity to the traffic simulation. It also considerably raises the game's system requirements, but I think SC4+NAM is still the best city management simulation ever built, by a long shot. I sunk a lot of time into Cities Skylines too, but the simulation has too many fundamental flaws under the hood. Drivers don't make proper use of turning lanes. Everyone moves in at the same time at the same age to new residential zones, and then dies at the same time. Etc. It's a good game, but the underlying simulation is hamstrung. I'd agree it's a more enjoyable "paint a city" sandbox, but trying to challenge myself with it as a game the way I did with SC4 doesn't feel as satisfying.
- freitzkriesler2 4y ago
  Thanks for mentioning this. NAM is really a requirement for Sc4 at this point.

dncornholio 4y ago

I agree that CS doesn't rub the sweetspot like the original Simcity did.

nwallin 4y ago

> The issue being that the traffic and population simulation engine in CS isnt very good. IMHO C:S is only playable if you use the TM:PE mod. (Traffic Manager:Presidential Edition) It gives you the tools to completely solve the traffic problems. Whether this is an argument for or against your point is a matter of perspective.

freitzkriesler2 4y ago
Thanks for this recommendation. I'll give CS a retry if this mod puts the traffic and pop sim on par with sc4.
- nwallin 4y ago
  It won't change anything about the population sim, just traffic. There exist other mods that change the population sim; I'm not familiar with them. C:S mods ... well there's a ton of them. It's a pretty deep rabbit hole.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    There's a "realistic population mod" but depending on how you use it it just ands some multipliers. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025147082 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=20251... Note that it is VERY easy to make the game impossible with this mod, and to make it painfully easy.

mortenjorck 4y ago

The thing that always held CS back for me was the UI. I reinstalled it again recently to see if some five years of patches since the last time I’d played might have given Paradox time to hire some professional game UI designers, but I left disappointed. Compared to the sophistication of Maxis' UIs twenty years ago, CS' clunky interactions, awkward visual hierarchy, and downright amateurish typography are indeed a poor replacement.