8 ms·

2023 State of Software Engineers [pdf]

124 points by hunglee2 4y ago

wainstead 4y ago
"For the purpose of this report, Hired examined software engineering candidate interview requests (IVR) and salary data from January 2021 through December 2022 inclusive. The data included reflects over 68,500 candidates and 494,000 interview requests between companies and software engineers on Hired during this time period." Then, I think, the numbers reflect only candidates and companies that use Hired, as opposed to the industry as a whole. I wonder how many folks land jobs through Hired?
- Our_Benefactors 4y ago
  I have had high callback rates from working with hired, as well as multi year engagement resulting from an offer through hired. These were with companies doing interesting work I would have never known I was a match for otherwise. You also need to do your own due diligence on the company, because hired is structured to take as little time commitment from their recruiters as possible (this is actually a good thing because it forces the companies on the website to be upfront).
- mrj 4y ago
  Yeah there does appear to be bias in their sample since Ruby on Rails was their most in-demand skill. Not to knock it or anything, but it hardly seems like the number one skill industry wide.
  - Eumenes 4y ago
    I think its naïve to rank skills by a framework or library, but we're talking about a hiring platform website, used by keyword driven recruiters. If they were being more honest and accurate, lumping Django/Node would seem more appropriate. JVM/Java + C#/MSFT seems like it could stand on its own as well.
- neon_electro 4y ago
  I have two experiences of using Hired to try to land jobs; I got interview requests, I interviewed, but I never found a role I was committed enough to or qualified enough for. Both times I came out without any offers. Definitely have my own share of the blame here, but I don't think Hired put a ton of high quality leads on my radar for the effort I put in.
- atomicnumber3 4y ago
  Especially when it's well-known that many engineers, especially senior, are essentially never "on the market". They work through their networks, leveraging referrals, and will frequently vanish from one job and appear in another without submitting a resume, contacting a recruiter, or touching anything on linkedin/gh/etc. Seems like that alone would put a big skew on results. It's kind of like the "r/cscareerquestions" effect. There's literally only 3 people posting: hapless anxious innocent newbies/newgrads, low-marketability folks who are struggling to find a position, and people who get off on trolling/doomposting and otherwise feeding off the despair of the other two crowds. The result being a forum that perpetually makes it seem impossible to get hired as a software engineer (even during the covid hiring spree!).
  - tayo42 4y ago
    anecdotally, i know more people that struggle with the hiring process then these extroverted super connected senior developers that just hop job from job that apparently exist. from the group of people i keep in contact with, i think only one is doing something like that. also the people we hired went through application pipelines and weren't just showing up after being recommended
    - johnzabroski 4y ago
      I know quite a few developers who have a knack for following market trends and jumping on the rocket ship before it is about to launch. It's actually not that hard if you think about what filter you would apply. The one hard part is finding recruiters who specialize in placing people at these companies, and, of course, passing the interview (or at least enough success that the interviewer doesn't tell the recruiter you are a poor quality candidate).
  - eulers_secret 4y ago
    This isn’t my experience. I’ve interviewed many seniors in my time, and also gone on many interviews as a senior. Networks fail people all the time. Mine failed me because I was at one company for a decade(switching teams), and my entire network still works there. I don’t want to go back, so I essentially have no network. We hired an architect who’s entire network was still at IBM, similar to me. There’s other possible failure modes, it happens quite a bit IME.
confact 4y ago
Interesting report. Does a similar exist in Europe and Asia? This felt a bit North America-focused. I could have missed something here.
- itronitron 4y ago
  Hired also only serves certain major metropolitan areas, so it's even further focused than just North America.
calvinmorrison 4y ago
145K for remote engineers with 0-1 years of experience? I'm sorry - that doesn't seem to match reality from what I have seen.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- synkarius 4y ago
  That whole chart seems off.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    If I can act like a junior developer, I'll take a salary cut to 145k just so I don't need to do anything but develop, ask stupid questions and be able to clock out after work without worrying about any systemic team, company or other structural problems. Not even kidding!
    - zeusk 4y ago
      You'll make more at any big tech as entry level engineer. I made ~190k on my W-2 after first year at Microsoft.
- Yoric 4y ago
  From what I've seen, this seems to have been the case at some point last year in SV-style companies in the US.
yieldcrv 4y ago
Ask HN: Do I have to do Hired's coding assessments to get interview requests now? Question for you all, I've used the same resume and landed jobs twice on Hired before, now I have even more experience. This round I got 0 interview requests during my 6 week promotion period. The only difference I see is that Hired made some coding assessments that employers could use to filter candidates. I didn't do them. Has anyone else A/B tested this? Coding assessments = a bunch of interview requests?
- nelzya 4y ago
  My guess your salary reqs changed...
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    I played around with them during the promotion period, put them in line with what other recruiters were telling me (now that base salaries are posted publicly in most(?) job listings)
- OnionBlender 4y ago
  I have 15 years experience and haven't received any interviews from companies on hired either. I also didn't do the coding assessments. Another factor is that my experience probably isn't in demand. All of my experience was writing C++ for devices but only in user space. Most C++ jobs seem to want more than just a generalist C++ programmer. They want low level embedded experience, or backend, or distributed systems, or GPGPU, or graphics.
- Salgat 4y ago
  I did the basic coding assessment as a Senior Dev and got around 12 interview requests at around $200k salary average. I'm willing to bet most employers filter for this, since most employers already get a ton of applicants either way.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    thanks! that fits my hypothesis. yeah it was hard to prioritize doing that when there are so many other recruiters and companies in different stages of the interview process with their own coding assessments.
timeimp 4y ago
>The most in-demand skill was Ruby on Rails, with engineers skilled in this framework and scripting language receiving 1.64x more interview requests compared to the marketplace average. Ruby on Rails bumped Go from first place in 2022’s report to fourth this year. Woah. That’s an interesting finding. I wonder what RoR is doing to make it so in-demand?
- digianarchist 4y ago
  Probably advertising skew. I remember Hired being advertised on RoR specific boards and sites.
- dcchambers 4y ago
  Many of today's big tech cos, which were unicorns in the 2005-2015 era, were built on top of Ruby/Rails. Today those companies have diversified their tech stacks but for the most part the core rails monoliths aren't going anywhere. They need engineers to work on them.
- treis 4y ago
  It's not necessarily in-demand. It's the ratio of jobs to applicants. Both numbers can be low which anecdotally feels right for Rails. It's not the new hotness anymore but there's still plenty of systems to maintain/expand. Can be hard to hire because fewer engineers want to do it but the systems can't easily be transitioned to a new language.
- lbrito 4y ago
  Same result as 2021. Must be due to all the "it is dead and forgotten" hate Ruby gets :)
- return_to_monke 4y ago
  because languages that were popular before but aren't now are always a hit. see COBOL for example.
- jcadam 4y ago
  Yep, I have RoR on my resume/LN profile from years ago (rails 3.x), and I get recruiters spamming me - mostly for legacy maintenance/modernization/porting to another stack type jobs. I've moved on, not so interested in going back...
jstx1 4y ago
London really sticks out with lowest salaries (compared to US and Canada, not to the rest of the UK/Europe) and lowest % of remote positions.
- Normal_gaussian 4y ago
  They've rendered the graph incorrectly, using the native currency as the unit instead of the converted USD unit. Toronto and London should be at 103kUSD and 98kUSD respectively.
  - dom96 4y ago
    They really should have rendered this graph with the same currency. It is interesting that Toronto and London are so close.
- msvan 4y ago
  You'd think there would be an arbitrage opportunity in paying more $$$ for London talent. Still surprises me that this hasn't happened after all these years of huge differences.
  - frankreyes 4y ago
    Top earning UK dev jobs are usually 200k upwards, already. Those numbers don't account for finance and similar industries, which they hire directly and don't use Hired services.
    - jstx1 4y ago
      How common is this? Even breaking £150k seems really challenging - FAANGs aren't hiring in London right now, finance seems to require previous finance experience and/or prestigious education even for experienced candidates (I don't know if they really require it or just like to put it in their job ads); and even companies that pay less (£90-120k) aren't giving me the time of day.
blue039 4y ago
It's good to see that despite all of the astroturfed "Journalism" on the death of remote work the data appears to show otherwise. The engineer market dictates the terms of employment. It seems that, based on this, remote is here to stay. That's good news for myself and others that would otherwise have very little reason to stay in tech. For example, the area I've lived in for the last 25 years has a small tech community. Mostly curmudgeonly old companies with a "tech" wing that is chronically underpaid. Think $90k for a senior a position. Given how expensive my house has become in recent years there's no way that's even possible to choke down. Rails being the most in-demand skill is relatively unsurprising. It's becoming the web's very own COBOL. Millions and millions of lines of RoR code from over a decade ago needs to be maintained and these people are in high demand. I've seen a lot of new shops spring up that use RoR too. The trend with these places seems to be foreign developers and juniors powering the company. RoR, while it has it's problems, is still the perfect tool to extract any real power a developer has. It's about as close to WYSIWYG as we can come without going to dreamweaver. It is interesting Python didn't make it into the in-demand skill list. I suppose the language is relatively niche still. It just feels like an in-demand kill to me because I work in data engineering. It's similarly interesting Go scored so high in demanded skills. Even outside my field it's still very niche despite all the posts you see. It leaves me suspect of their data somewhat.
- fn-mote 4y ago
  > It is interesting Python didn't make it into the in-demand skill list. Since Python is on the top of all of the other lists, I think this is a consequence of their methodology. Demand for coding skill over the market average... well if every job in the market requires Python you're not going to see a much "over the average".
- Yoric 4y ago
  I don't know. Almost every back-end position I see requires Python (with a few exceptions that require Go or Rust). I filter for stuff that hires remotely and/or in France, so there is a bias.
polishdude20 4y ago
Having the CAD amounts in the graph equivalent in length as the USD amounts is just downright deceptive.
- rowanajmarshall 4y ago
  It's even worse with London, where £1 is worth about $1.22 _before_ adjusting for PPP.
commandlinefan 4y ago
The charts don't call out whether they're showing average base salary, or average TC (including stocks/bonuses/etc.) - I wonder if the actual numbers are higher.
- alfalfasprout 4y ago
  Yep. Total comp fell a lot at the top and also likely changed quite a bit elsewhere too. At least for me, salary is <20% of my comp.
yboris 4y ago
Where are all these "0–1 Years Experience" salary averaging at $145k/year? Is this really an average? (see page 29)
- flutas 4y ago
  I'm honestly super suspicious of that number as well. I have 6+ yoe and all the offers I got from their platform (while living in LA) were around 120k.
epicureanideal 4y ago
Why do salaries flatten so sharply? $145k for 0-1 years of experience, rising gradually to only $167k for 15+ years? Is a person with 15 years of experience really worth only 10% more?
- atleastoptimal 4y ago
  I imagine it's because good engineers are smart enough to realize staying an engineer is a thankless job and move to more managerial roles.
  - UncleOxidant 4y ago
    If that were true it would mean there would be a shortage of experienced engineers which should make them worth more.
    - captaincaveman 4y ago
      There is, we have a low bar of what a senior engineer imho.
      - epicureanideal 4y ago
        But the survey uses years of experience, not job titles.
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  $145k seems too high, $167k seems too low. Weird data - juniors on high rates are more willing to share and seniors in good jobs don't care about these surveys?
  - Yoric 4y ago
    That's my hypothesis, too.
dgs_sgd 4y ago
On page 21 we see that only 25% of engineers consider a great/exciting product to be an important work priority, and only 24% consider strong mission/vision. Are 3/4 of engineers just not that interested in what the company is actually building for the world?
- fleddr 4y ago
  In our work culture of "toxic positivity" we've forgotten that most employees, in any business, care about pay and job security first and foremost.
- npalli 4y ago
  3/4 of engineers who use Hired.com. Good data point if you expect a certain profile of engineer.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  > Are 3/4 of engineers just not that interested in what the company is actually building for the world? Given how many engineers work at basic companies doing basic stuff, probably. There's only so many exciting opportunities to change the world out there. For the rest of us, it's CRUD stuff for an insurance company.
- slyall 4y ago
  What percentage of jobs are at companies that are really changing the world for better? Probably less than 25%
balaji1 4y ago
Let's flip it. how good is hired.com's performance? how many jobs they fill per year? how many candidates get a job on there? how long does it take them? I ask because there are many job portals these days and I see a lot of flakiness, ghosting, etc.
- balaji1 4y ago
  But their marketing worked, I'm going to be signing up sigh... Hope it is better than the rest.
npalli 4y ago
A very specific survey limited to Hired.com so not sure if this generalizes. Lot of times a percentage change is provided starting from a small base giving the wrong impression (RoR having high demand, NLP engineer top role etc..) With that, some non-obvious observations from this sample that popped out -- 1. All remote roles settling to around $160K in the US. This can't be good for those in the high cost areas like SF, Boston etc.. where SOL is easily 2x of the lower cost cities. How will people in high cost regions make remote employment work? 2. How is blockchain engineer still a thing? I would have predicted more than a substantial drop, more like complete wipeout. 3. Rust bottom of the list (least favorite) in engineers favorite/least favorite language. I LOL'ed at this one, since any Rust topic opens with "most admired programming language 7 years a row" statement. Go third least favorite less favored than HTML, Java, C++ and SQL (!). Definitely an interesting sample group.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  > 1. All remote roles settling to around $160K in the US. This can't be good for those in the high cost areas like SF, Boston etc.. where SOL is easily 2x of the lower cost cities. How will people in high cost regions make remote employment work? How else are people not in big cities supposed to make in-person employment work? Well, besides taking lesser opportunities. It seems like tilting the playing field away from big (and arguably dysfunctional) cities is the more equitable outcome. I think the jig is up for a few cities hogging all the tech, and if that changes the rules of engagement for city-dwellers and their living situation, such is life. > 2. How is blockchain engineer still a thing? I would have predicted more than a substantial drop, more like complete wipeout. A combination of easy money and surveys such as this one being largely imperfect. Exacty how many blockchain engineers do you know personally? I can't name a one. For all we know, there's 3 developers with the title of "blockhain engineer" working for one company out of the basement of a house and are making ~170k.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

124 points by hunglee2 4y ago

"For the purpose of this report, Hired examined software engineering candidate interview requests (IVR) and salary data from January 2021 through December 2022 inclusive. The data included reflects over 68,500 candidates and 494,000 interview requests between companies and software engineers on Hired during this time period." Then, I think, the numbers reflect only candidates and companies that use Hired, as opposed to the industry as a whole. I wonder how many folks land jobs through Hired?

Our_Benefactors 4y ago
I have had high callback rates from working with hired, as well as multi year engagement resulting from an offer through hired. These were with companies doing interesting work I would have never known I was a match for otherwise. You also need to do your own due diligence on the company, because hired is structured to take as little time commitment from their recruiters as possible (this is actually a good thing because it forces the companies on the website to be upfront).
mrj 4y ago
Yeah there does appear to be bias in their sample since Ruby on Rails was their most in-demand skill. Not to knock it or anything, but it hardly seems like the number one skill industry wide.
- Eumenes 4y ago
  I think its naïve to rank skills by a framework or library, but we're talking about a hiring platform website, used by keyword driven recruiters. If they were being more honest and accurate, lumping Django/Node would seem more appropriate. JVM/Java + C#/MSFT seems like it could stand on its own as well.
neon_electro 4y ago
I have two experiences of using Hired to try to land jobs; I got interview requests, I interviewed, but I never found a role I was committed enough to or qualified enough for. Both times I came out without any offers. Definitely have my own share of the blame here, but I don't think Hired put a ton of high quality leads on my radar for the effort I put in.
atomicnumber3 4y ago
Especially when it's well-known that many engineers, especially senior, are essentially never "on the market". They work through their networks, leveraging referrals, and will frequently vanish from one job and appear in another without submitting a resume, contacting a recruiter, or touching anything on linkedin/gh/etc. Seems like that alone would put a big skew on results. It's kind of like the "r/cscareerquestions" effect. There's literally only 3 people posting: hapless anxious innocent newbies/newgrads, low-marketability folks who are struggling to find a position, and people who get off on trolling/doomposting and otherwise feeding off the despair of the other two crowds. The result being a forum that perpetually makes it seem impossible to get hired as a software engineer (even during the covid hiring spree!).
- tayo42 4y ago
  anecdotally, i know more people that struggle with the hiring process then these extroverted super connected senior developers that just hop job from job that apparently exist. from the group of people i keep in contact with, i think only one is doing something like that. also the people we hired went through application pipelines and weren't just showing up after being recommended
  - johnzabroski 4y ago
    I know quite a few developers who have a knack for following market trends and jumping on the rocket ship before it is about to launch. It's actually not that hard if you think about what filter you would apply. The one hard part is finding recruiters who specialize in placing people at these companies, and, of course, passing the interview (or at least enough success that the interviewer doesn't tell the recruiter you are a poor quality candidate).
- eulers_secret 4y ago
  This isn’t my experience. I’ve interviewed many seniors in my time, and also gone on many interviews as a senior. Networks fail people all the time. Mine failed me because I was at one company for a decade(switching teams), and my entire network still works there. I don’t want to go back, so I essentially have no network. We hired an architect who’s entire network was still at IBM, similar to me. There’s other possible failure modes, it happens quite a bit IME.

confact 4y ago

Interesting report. Does a similar exist in Europe and Asia? This felt a bit North America-focused. I could have missed something here.

itronitron 4y ago
Hired also only serves certain major metropolitan areas, so it's even further focused than just North America.

calvinmorrison 4y ago

145K for remote engineers with 0-1 years of experience? I'm sorry - that doesn't seem to match reality from what I have seen.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
synkarius 4y ago
That whole chart seems off.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  If I can act like a junior developer, I'll take a salary cut to 145k just so I don't need to do anything but develop, ask stupid questions and be able to clock out after work without worrying about any systemic team, company or other structural problems. Not even kidding!
  - zeusk 4y ago
    You'll make more at any big tech as entry level engineer. I made ~190k on my W-2 after first year at Microsoft.
Yoric 4y ago
From what I've seen, this seems to have been the case at some point last year in SV-style companies in the US.

yieldcrv 4y ago

Ask HN: Do I have to do Hired's coding assessments to get interview requests now? Question for you all, I've used the same resume and landed jobs twice on Hired before, now I have even more experience. This round I got 0 interview requests during my 6 week promotion period. The only difference I see is that Hired made some coding assessments that employers could use to filter candidates. I didn't do them. Has anyone else A/B tested this? Coding assessments = a bunch of interview requests?

nelzya 4y ago
My guess your salary reqs changed...
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  I played around with them during the promotion period, put them in line with what other recruiters were telling me (now that base salaries are posted publicly in most(?) job listings)
OnionBlender 4y ago
I have 15 years experience and haven't received any interviews from companies on hired either. I also didn't do the coding assessments. Another factor is that my experience probably isn't in demand. All of my experience was writing C++ for devices but only in user space. Most C++ jobs seem to want more than just a generalist C++ programmer. They want low level embedded experience, or backend, or distributed systems, or GPGPU, or graphics.
Salgat 4y ago
I did the basic coding assessment as a Senior Dev and got around 12 interview requests at around $200k salary average. I'm willing to bet most employers filter for this, since most employers already get a ton of applicants either way.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  thanks! that fits my hypothesis. yeah it was hard to prioritize doing that when there are so many other recruiters and companies in different stages of the interview process with their own coding assessments.

timeimp 4y ago

>The most in-demand skill was Ruby on Rails, with engineers skilled in this framework and scripting language receiving 1.64x more interview requests compared to the marketplace average. Ruby on Rails bumped Go from first place in 2022’s report to fourth this year. Woah. That’s an interesting finding. I wonder what RoR is doing to make it so in-demand?

digianarchist 4y ago
Probably advertising skew. I remember Hired being advertised on RoR specific boards and sites.
dcchambers 4y ago
Many of today's big tech cos, which were unicorns in the 2005-2015 era, were built on top of Ruby/Rails. Today those companies have diversified their tech stacks but for the most part the core rails monoliths aren't going anywhere. They need engineers to work on them.
treis 4y ago
It's not necessarily in-demand. It's the ratio of jobs to applicants. Both numbers can be low which anecdotally feels right for Rails. It's not the new hotness anymore but there's still plenty of systems to maintain/expand. Can be hard to hire because fewer engineers want to do it but the systems can't easily be transitioned to a new language.
lbrito 4y ago
Same result as 2021. Must be due to all the "it is dead and forgotten" hate Ruby gets :)
return_to_monke 4y ago
because languages that were popular before but aren't now are always a hit. see COBOL for example.
jcadam 4y ago
Yep, I have RoR on my resume/LN profile from years ago (rails 3.x), and I get recruiters spamming me - mostly for legacy maintenance/modernization/porting to another stack type jobs. I've moved on, not so interested in going back...

jstx1 4y ago

London really sticks out with lowest salaries (compared to US and Canada, not to the rest of the UK/Europe) and lowest % of remote positions.

Normal_gaussian 4y ago
They've rendered the graph incorrectly, using the native currency as the unit instead of the converted USD unit. Toronto and London should be at 103kUSD and 98kUSD respectively.
- dom96 4y ago
  They really should have rendered this graph with the same currency. It is interesting that Toronto and London are so close.
msvan 4y ago
You'd think there would be an arbitrage opportunity in paying more $$$ for London talent. Still surprises me that this hasn't happened after all these years of huge differences.
- frankreyes 4y ago
  Top earning UK dev jobs are usually 200k upwards, already. Those numbers don't account for finance and similar industries, which they hire directly and don't use Hired services.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    How common is this? Even breaking £150k seems really challenging - FAANGs aren't hiring in London right now, finance seems to require previous finance experience and/or prestigious education even for experienced candidates (I don't know if they really require it or just like to put it in their job ads); and even companies that pay less (£90-120k) aren't giving me the time of day.

blue039 4y ago

It's good to see that despite all of the astroturfed "Journalism" on the death of remote work the data appears to show otherwise. The engineer market dictates the terms of employment. It seems that, based on this, remote is here to stay. That's good news for myself and others that would otherwise have very little reason to stay in tech. For example, the area I've lived in for the last 25 years has a small tech community. Mostly curmudgeonly old companies with a "tech" wing that is chronically underpaid. Think $90k for a senior a position. Given how expensive my house has become in recent years there's no way that's even possible to choke down. Rails being the most in-demand skill is relatively unsurprising. It's becoming the web's very own COBOL. Millions and millions of lines of RoR code from over a decade ago needs to be maintained and these people are in high demand. I've seen a lot of new shops spring up that use RoR too. The trend with these places seems to be foreign developers and juniors powering the company. RoR, while it has it's problems, is still the perfect tool to extract any real power a developer has. It's about as close to WYSIWYG as we can come without going to dreamweaver. It is interesting Python didn't make it into the in-demand skill list. I suppose the language is relatively niche still. It just feels like an in-demand kill to me because I work in data engineering. It's similarly interesting Go scored so high in demanded skills. Even outside my field it's still very niche despite all the posts you see. It leaves me suspect of their data somewhat.

fn-mote 4y ago
> It is interesting Python didn't make it into the in-demand skill list. Since Python is on the top of all of the other lists, I think this is a consequence of their methodology. Demand for coding skill over the market average... well if every job in the market requires Python you're not going to see a much "over the average".
Yoric 4y ago
I don't know. Almost every back-end position I see requires Python (with a few exceptions that require Go or Rust). I filter for stuff that hires remotely and/or in France, so there is a bias.

polishdude20 4y ago

Having the CAD amounts in the graph equivalent in length as the USD amounts is just downright deceptive.

rowanajmarshall 4y ago
It's even worse with London, where £1 is worth about $1.22 _before_ adjusting for PPP.

commandlinefan 4y ago

The charts don't call out whether they're showing average base salary, or average TC (including stocks/bonuses/etc.) - I wonder if the actual numbers are higher.

alfalfasprout 4y ago
Yep. Total comp fell a lot at the top and also likely changed quite a bit elsewhere too. At least for me, salary is <20% of my comp.

yboris 4y ago

Where are all these "0–1 Years Experience" salary averaging at $145k/year? Is this really an average? (see page 29)

flutas 4y ago
I'm honestly super suspicious of that number as well. I have 6+ yoe and all the offers I got from their platform (while living in LA) were around 120k.

epicureanideal 4y ago

Why do salaries flatten so sharply? $145k for 0-1 years of experience, rising gradually to only $167k for 15+ years? Is a person with 15 years of experience really worth only 10% more?

atleastoptimal 4y ago
I imagine it's because good engineers are smart enough to realize staying an engineer is a thankless job and move to more managerial roles.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  If that were true it would mean there would be a shortage of experienced engineers which should make them worth more.
  - captaincaveman 4y ago
    There is, we have a low bar of what a senior engineer imho.
    - epicureanideal 4y ago
      But the survey uses years of experience, not job titles.
eddsh1994 4y ago
$145k seems too high, $167k seems too low. Weird data - juniors on high rates are more willing to share and seniors in good jobs don't care about these surveys?
- Yoric 4y ago
  That's my hypothesis, too.

dgs_sgd 4y ago

On page 21 we see that only 25% of engineers consider a great/exciting product to be an important work priority, and only 24% consider strong mission/vision. Are 3/4 of engineers just not that interested in what the company is actually building for the world?

fleddr 4y ago
In our work culture of "toxic positivity" we've forgotten that most employees, in any business, care about pay and job security first and foremost.
npalli 4y ago
3/4 of engineers who use Hired.com. Good data point if you expect a certain profile of engineer.
mywittyname 4y ago
> Are 3/4 of engineers just not that interested in what the company is actually building for the world? Given how many engineers work at basic companies doing basic stuff, probably. There's only so many exciting opportunities to change the world out there. For the rest of us, it's CRUD stuff for an insurance company.
slyall 4y ago
What percentage of jobs are at companies that are really changing the world for better? Probably less than 25%

balaji1 4y ago

Let's flip it. how good is hired.com's performance? how many jobs they fill per year? how many candidates get a job on there? how long does it take them? I ask because there are many job portals these days and I see a lot of flakiness, ghosting, etc.

balaji1 4y ago
But their marketing worked, I'm going to be signing up sigh... Hope it is better than the rest.

npalli 4y ago

A very specific survey limited to Hired.com so not sure if this generalizes. Lot of times a percentage change is provided starting from a small base giving the wrong impression (RoR having high demand, NLP engineer top role etc..) With that, some non-obvious observations from this sample that popped out -- 1. All remote roles settling to around $160K in the US. This can't be good for those in the high cost areas like SF, Boston etc.. where SOL is easily 2x of the lower cost cities. How will people in high cost regions make remote employment work? 2. How is blockchain engineer still a thing? I would have predicted more than a substantial drop, more like complete wipeout. 3. Rust bottom of the list (least favorite) in engineers favorite/least favorite language. I LOL'ed at this one, since any Rust topic opens with "most admired programming language 7 years a row" statement. Go third least favorite less favored than HTML, Java, C++ and SQL (!). Definitely an interesting sample group.

ravenstine 4y ago
> 1. All remote roles settling to around $160K in the US. This can't be good for those in the high cost areas like SF, Boston etc.. where SOL is easily 2x of the lower cost cities. How will people in high cost regions make remote employment work? How else are people not in big cities supposed to make in-person employment work? Well, besides taking lesser opportunities. It seems like tilting the playing field away from big (and arguably dysfunctional) cities is the more equitable outcome. I think the jig is up for a few cities hogging all the tech, and if that changes the rules of engagement for city-dwellers and their living situation, such is life. > 2. How is blockchain engineer still a thing? I would have predicted more than a substantial drop, more like complete wipeout. A combination of easy money and surveys such as this one being largely imperfect. Exacty how many blockchain engineers do you know personally? I can't name a one. For all we know, there's 3 developers with the title of "blockhain engineer" working for one company out of the basement of a house and are making ~170k.

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