3 ms·

This really makes me mad. The idea that you can buy a bunch of terminals and, Voila!!, you've got an awesome production control system is utter crap. I've work

This really makes me mad. The idea that you can buy a bunch of terminals and, Voila!!, you've got an awesome production control system is utter crap. I've worked on systems like this and it takes a LOT OF SOFTWARE to drive those Pi's. If those folks spent less that a hundred grand on that, I'm really sad about how badly they screwed their programmers. If they do not have full time staff supporting it, I'm really sad for their factory staff because the stuff is getting worse every day. The fantasy that software is a secondary consideration ("it cost pennies!!"), almost free is infuriating.

abetusk 4y ago
On the one hand, I totally agree. On the other, the project as described is well within reach of a small team (1-5 people) of programmers that could pull it off in 3-12 months for under $100k (maybe even closer to $10k-$20k). The way the guy was talking, it sounds like he had one of his employees who also happened to be studying CS whip up something that works while still paying base salary rates. If so, this means the owner got an insane deal by paying a full time programmer worth maybe $100k-$200k at a $30k rate. In the end, I think you're right. The guy probably got an insane deal because he convinced one of his employees to do free labor. I do wish projects like that weren't so expensive. I'll also point out that for a savvy owner who has some technical experience, this is also a very feasible (relatively cheap) project.
- tqwhite 4y ago
  If I was buying this solution and you told me you would do it for $20k, I would not consider your proposal for one more minute. I have written things like this. A decently robust solution takes a lot more than that. If you are doing a burdened rate of $100/hour, that's 200 hours, five person weeks. That's barely enough time to get a working MVP, let alone test thoroughly and deploy. Let alone implement management tools to input the orders and the screens for the workers to access and update, let alone the reporting and archiving. Let alone maintenance and support. And, if you are paying $100/hour burdened, you are hiring people for $50/hour or less. Either you are hiring newbies, in that case, who is doing the design, or you found somebody desperate and are taking advantage. Which is to say, the assertion of 1-5, $10-20k makes me mad, too, as another form of devaluing the profession of software development. Nobody is "whipping up" something like this.
  - abetusk 4y ago
    I should have specified in more detail, my apologies. The number, $10k-$20k was in hardware costs, separate from labor costs. So, potentially $10k-$20k in addition to whatever labor costs there are.
detritus 4y ago
And yet, they seem to have managed to accomplish a solution which works well for them. Well done, them. Isn't this supposed to be 'hacker' news?
- tqwhite 4y ago
  I didn't say a thing about being mad that they had a solution. I am mad at the guy for claiming that this tremendously useful tool could be had for "pennies". I will grant you this. A hacker, meaning a teen in a basement making it work in the minimum way, could create a thing like this. I'm not that. The person who did this for that cycle company is not that (because that low-class hacker couldn't procure and implement dozens of pi's, or the networking, or the training). And, if he or she could, the company would be nuts to base their business on it. IT systems like this are hard and expensive. Suggesting otherwise is, I think, irresponsible. Someone that sees that video, believes it's just "pennies" and goes to his boss, promising to accomplish something like that is going to fail and be harmed. And that makes me mad, too.
  - detritus 4y ago
    Perhaps a good idea to keep in mind this is a Brit speaking, and we tend to have a lot of understatement in our communication. I interpreted 'pennies' as 'a good bit less than if we'd been stupidly-overcharged by the mercenary consultants he refers to'. I don't interpret 'pennies' as one of their employees getting screwed over. I mean, they may well might of, or they may well have had a significant wage increase and new clout within the company... .

abetusk 4y ago

On the one hand, I totally agree. On the other, the project as described is well within reach of a small team (1-5 people) of programmers that could pull it off in 3-12 months for under $100k (maybe even closer to $10k-$20k). The way the guy was talking, it sounds like he had one of his employees who also happened to be studying CS whip up something that works while still paying base salary rates. If so, this means the owner got an insane deal by paying a full time programmer worth maybe $100k-$200k at a $30k rate. In the end, I think you're right. The guy probably got an insane deal because he convinced one of his employees to do free labor. I do wish projects like that weren't so expensive. I'll also point out that for a savvy owner who has some technical experience, this is also a very feasible (relatively cheap) project.

tqwhite 4y ago
If I was buying this solution and you told me you would do it for $20k, I would not consider your proposal for one more minute. I have written things like this. A decently robust solution takes a lot more than that. If you are doing a burdened rate of $100/hour, that's 200 hours, five person weeks. That's barely enough time to get a working MVP, let alone test thoroughly and deploy. Let alone implement management tools to input the orders and the screens for the workers to access and update, let alone the reporting and archiving. Let alone maintenance and support. And, if you are paying $100/hour burdened, you are hiring people for $50/hour or less. Either you are hiring newbies, in that case, who is doing the design, or you found somebody desperate and are taking advantage. Which is to say, the assertion of 1-5, $10-20k makes me mad, too, as another form of devaluing the profession of software development. Nobody is "whipping up" something like this.
- abetusk 4y ago
  I should have specified in more detail, my apologies. The number, $10k-$20k was in hardware costs, separate from labor costs. So, potentially $10k-$20k in addition to whatever labor costs there are.

detritus 4y ago

And yet, they seem to have managed to accomplish a solution which works well for them. Well done, them. Isn't this supposed to be 'hacker' news?

tqwhite 4y ago
I didn't say a thing about being mad that they had a solution. I am mad at the guy for claiming that this tremendously useful tool could be had for "pennies". I will grant you this. A hacker, meaning a teen in a basement making it work in the minimum way, could create a thing like this. I'm not that. The person who did this for that cycle company is not that (because that low-class hacker couldn't procure and implement dozens of pi's, or the networking, or the training). And, if he or she could, the company would be nuts to base their business on it. IT systems like this are hard and expensive. Suggesting otherwise is, I think, irresponsible. Someone that sees that video, believes it's just "pennies" and goes to his boss, promising to accomplish something like that is going to fail and be harmed. And that makes me mad, too.
- detritus 4y ago
  Perhaps a good idea to keep in mind this is a Brit speaking, and we tend to have a lot of understatement in our communication. I interpreted 'pennies' as 'a good bit less than if we'd been stupidly-overcharged by the mercenary consultants he refers to'. I don't interpret 'pennies' as one of their employees getting screwed over. I mean, they may well might of, or they may well have had a significant wage increase and new clout within the company... .