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>>> Another wrinkle is that, according to a recently released comprehensive analysis, teen suicides fell during the lockdown phase of the pandemic, and increase

>>> Another wrinkle is that, according to a recently released comprehensive analysis, teen suicides fell during the lockdown phase of the pandemic, and increased when schools returned to in-person sessions. The researchers looked at the data down to the county level and found a strong correlation between school being in session and increased numbers of suicides, even showing that the rate dropped in the summer months when school was not in session. Wow. I had always worked under the idea school==good but as my kids grow it really reminds me how much I hated school - even though it educated me.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
While we should absolutely investigate the issue, it’s only one dimension of the education experience. Missing an education and/or the social learning of school can have negative effects that only show up later in adult life. An uneducated 10 year old may be happy to avoid school all day, but a 30 year old who was never properly educated is most likely going to have a very bad time for the rest of their life. Trying to shelter kids from every possibly negative feeling, including before it happens, is a natural parenting impulse. However, overly sheltering kids from potential difficult experiences usually leads to much worse outcomes in adulthood. Definitely address any depression issues if they come up, but trying to prevent kids from ever experiencing any challenging situations will not be beneficial in adulthood.
yamtaddle 4y ago
I had a relatively smooth high school experience (minimal bullying, stable home life, "good" school, I'm straight and white and a guy and all that stuff) and it was still easily the worst four years of my life so far, and I'm nearing 40. Add in junior high and it's the worst six year of my life so far, all in a row, top six worst years. Elementary was pretty good, I guess. Meanwhile, adults were telling me that was the best part of my life and always talking about how much harder adult life is, like all the misery of high school was just to prep us for much worse life as adults. Shit, if they'd been right I should have killed myself, truly. I still don't know how they managed to have such horrible lives that high school was the best they'd had. Even when I've been at points where I was working shit service jobs and had to watch the gauge on gas pumps really carefully to make sure I didn't overdraft—that was better than high school. Like, way better.
- em-bee 4y ago
  i only experienced one year in a US highschool, so i don't have much experience, but it wasn't that bad. in some aspects it was better than germany. (chemistry class was much better for example. most teachers were great, etc.) so either you went to a really bad school and i went to a good one, or your work life was just that much better (which is great). for me both were about equivalent. work gave me a lot more freedom of course (because i simply took that freedom as a freelancer) Even when I've been at points where I was working shit service jobs ok, wow, you must have had a really bad school then or horrible peers. but even a job like that can be good when you have great workmates.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Super-early starts (I've never had a job with a start before 8:00AM—high school, though? 7:30; and, crucially, if I had a job with a start that early, I could look for a different job), crazy amounts of work with tight deadlines ("this thing I assigned you today is due tomorrow, hope you're not tired and hope nobody else assigned you a bunch of stuff today that's due tomorrow, you'll be doing it tonight or else"), ~7 hours a day that were basically the equivalent of sitting in a really boring meeting (I want to crawl up the wall and/or fall asleep after about two hours of that, in the working world, which fortunately almost never happens—it's every day in high school), extreme regimentation to the point of having to ask to go take a piss or maybe getting in trouble if you just want to stand up and stretch for a minute, little sunlight exposure which is awful in Winter, et c., et c.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      ah yes. fortunately early starts are being debated as being a really bad idea, so that will hopefully go away for most students in the future. and i really like the "boring meeting" analogy. that makes so much sense. i didn't experience it like that, but i can totally see that happening, same with crazy homework which is really ridiculous. good point there. there is no homework at work. i found that aspect really liberating. except for deadlines. (but those make a cool wooshing sound when they pass by)

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

While we should absolutely investigate the issue, it’s only one dimension of the education experience. Missing an education and/or the social learning of school can have negative effects that only show up later in adult life. An uneducated 10 year old may be happy to avoid school all day, but a 30 year old who was never properly educated is most likely going to have a very bad time for the rest of their life. Trying to shelter kids from every possibly negative feeling, including before it happens, is a natural parenting impulse. However, overly sheltering kids from potential difficult experiences usually leads to much worse outcomes in adulthood. Definitely address any depression issues if they come up, but trying to prevent kids from ever experiencing any challenging situations will not be beneficial in adulthood.

yamtaddle 4y ago

I had a relatively smooth high school experience (minimal bullying, stable home life, "good" school, I'm straight and white and a guy and all that stuff) and it was still easily the worst four years of my life so far, and I'm nearing 40. Add in junior high and it's the worst six year of my life so far, all in a row, top six worst years. Elementary was pretty good, I guess. Meanwhile, adults were telling me that was the best part of my life and always talking about how much harder adult life is, like all the misery of high school was just to prep us for much worse life as adults. Shit, if they'd been right I should have killed myself, truly. I still don't know how they managed to have such horrible lives that high school was the best they'd had. Even when I've been at points where I was working shit service jobs and had to watch the gauge on gas pumps really carefully to make sure I didn't overdraft—that was better than high school. Like, way better.

em-bee 4y ago
i only experienced one year in a US highschool, so i don't have much experience, but it wasn't that bad. in some aspects it was better than germany. (chemistry class was much better for example. most teachers were great, etc.) so either you went to a really bad school and i went to a good one, or your work life was just that much better (which is great). for me both were about equivalent. work gave me a lot more freedom of course (because i simply took that freedom as a freelancer) Even when I've been at points where I was working shit service jobs ok, wow, you must have had a really bad school then or horrible peers. but even a job like that can be good when you have great workmates.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Super-early starts (I've never had a job with a start before 8:00AM—high school, though? 7:30; and, crucially, if I had a job with a start that early, I could look for a different job), crazy amounts of work with tight deadlines ("this thing I assigned you today is due tomorrow, hope you're not tired and hope nobody else assigned you a bunch of stuff today that's due tomorrow, you'll be doing it tonight or else"), ~7 hours a day that were basically the equivalent of sitting in a really boring meeting (I want to crawl up the wall and/or fall asleep after about two hours of that, in the working world, which fortunately almost never happens—it's every day in high school), extreme regimentation to the point of having to ask to go take a piss or maybe getting in trouble if you just want to stand up and stretch for a minute, little sunlight exposure which is awful in Winter, et c., et c.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    ah yes. fortunately early starts are being debated as being a really bad idea, so that will hopefully go away for most students in the future. and i really like the "boring meeting" analogy. that makes so much sense. i didn't experience it like that, but i can totally see that happening, same with crazy homework which is really ridiculous. good point there. there is no homework at work. i found that aspect really liberating. except for deadlines. (but those make a cool wooshing sound when they pass by)