4 ms·

This is not a useful answer unless you give specific information so as to be comparable. Otherwise, perhaps you simply have a low standard of comfort. This is

This is not a useful answer unless you give specific information so as to be comparable. Otherwise, perhaps you simply have a low standard of comfort. This is how I define comfortable -- a set of criteria which I have derived from visiting and living in both very cheap and very expensive places: * How long does it take to get to work? Do I have to drive to work? If my car breaks, could I buy/lease a late model new car (one that I expect will not have problems)? * Do I live close to friends, so that I can see them as often as I desire, or is the distance an impeding factor? * Can I walk to the supermarket, cafe or restaurant, or do I have to drive everywhere? * How large is my home, in sq. ft? Do I have a yard? * Can I vacation in a foreign country or expensive city? Will I have to couch surf or can I afford a hotel? * Am I able to contribute to a retirement plan? Do I have money to invest with? Can I put aside enough money that I will be able to buy even a modest home in my neighborhood in a few years? * Do I live in a city that has a vibrant cultural scene? Are there many good restaurants? * If I lose my job, could my savings cover 12+ months of unemployment? (Or, could I leave my job and work on my own projects for 12 months?) For me, comfort is being on the right side of all of the above questions, and it would be a stretch to do it on $100k in the SF Bay Area. On the other hand, there are many places in the US where, by the above list, I could not live comfortably no matter how much money I had: I'd rather earn $75K in SF than $180K in Kansas. Or Sacramento even.

usaar333 15y ago
I'll bite. A lot of the questions are "do I have enough disposable income" where the answer is yes. Specifics: > How long does it take to get to work? Do I have to drive to work? If my car breaks, could I buy/lease a late model new car (one that I expect will not have problems)? ~10 minutes on bike, slightly quicker in car. I guess I could buy a new car, but I've never thought that was a good move financially over getting one a few years old. (Then again, I could just rely on zipcar living here) > Do I live close to friends Almost anyone I know in SF is within a 20 minutes by bike or car. Most are within 10 minutes. > Can I walk to the supermarket, cafe or restaurant, Other than the supermarket, yes; smaller grocery stores are a block away. > How large is my home, in sq. ft? Do I have a yard? 130 sq feet personal room, 2 roommates, substantial common space (500 sq feet maybe?), additional storage space. minimal yard. Admittedly this is where you are going to save huge. Living with roommates over a 1 bedroom can save $12,000+ a year. >General savings Have a positive savings rate already while making well below $100k. Honestly, the big expenses are just house and car. As long as you don't splurge on those, you have tons of cash left. (This is coming from the perspective of a single guy in SF. For a family of 4 consider that down in Sunnyvale, you can find 3 bedroom houses for $2,200. If that household made $200k, they would have very high amounts of disposable income.)
- kree10 15y ago
  I don't know; this hypothetical family of 4 making $200k would have about $12k/month in take-home pay. After rent, utilities (including cell phone bills with data plans for 4), food and clothing, 2 cars (loan payments/gas/insurance/maintenance), college tuition (paying it or saving for it), orthodontics, etc., it could be near "living paycheck-to-paycheck" territory.
  - usaar333 15y ago
    Can you provide a breakdown there? I'm doubtful it is that bad, from both how high this income is compared to the median as well as personal numbers. I blow $1,650 a month, before auto/rent, with my pretty comfortable life. Even if children were at the same level of expenses (they are realistically maybe half that), family non-auto/rent is $6,600. The two cars throw in another $1000/month; housing is $2,200. That's about $9800 a month or $2,200/year in savings (18% rate)
    - kree10 15y ago
      I think you're underestimating child-related expenses. Since we're talking about both parents working full-time, just take the cost of child care: http://www.naccrra.org/randd/data/docs/CA.pdf http://www.naccrra.org/randd/data/docs/CA.pdf says this California family with 2 kids could be spending over $2000/mo on this alone, depending on how young they are. I'm not saying they won't necessarily have anything left, but $12k/mo still may not leave them much.
      - usaar333 15y ago
        I agree the family is taking more of a hit when the kids are young. However, this should amortize away as child care costs drop radically once the child is in school. I checked http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator and they shoe cost of raising a child to be $1,525/month for 18 years for the highest income.
- true_religion 15y ago

usaar333 15y ago

I'll bite. A lot of the questions are "do I have enough disposable income" where the answer is yes. Specifics: > How long does it take to get to work? Do I have to drive to work? If my car breaks, could I buy/lease a late model new car (one that I expect will not have problems)? ~10 minutes on bike, slightly quicker in car. I guess I could buy a new car, but I've never thought that was a good move financially over getting one a few years old. (Then again, I could just rely on zipcar living here) > Do I live close to friends Almost anyone I know in SF is within a 20 minutes by bike or car. Most are within 10 minutes. > Can I walk to the supermarket, cafe or restaurant, Other than the supermarket, yes; smaller grocery stores are a block away. > How large is my home, in sq. ft? Do I have a yard? 130 sq feet personal room, 2 roommates, substantial common space (500 sq feet maybe?), additional storage space. minimal yard. Admittedly this is where you are going to save huge. Living with roommates over a 1 bedroom can save $12,000+ a year. >General savings Have a positive savings rate already while making well below $100k. Honestly, the big expenses are just house and car. As long as you don't splurge on those, you have tons of cash left. (This is coming from the perspective of a single guy in SF. For a family of 4 consider that down in Sunnyvale, you can find 3 bedroom houses for $2,200. If that household made $200k, they would have very high amounts of disposable income.)

kree10 15y ago
I don't know; this hypothetical family of 4 making $200k would have about $12k/month in take-home pay. After rent, utilities (including cell phone bills with data plans for 4), food and clothing, 2 cars (loan payments/gas/insurance/maintenance), college tuition (paying it or saving for it), orthodontics, etc., it could be near "living paycheck-to-paycheck" territory.
- usaar333 15y ago
  Can you provide a breakdown there? I'm doubtful it is that bad, from both how high this income is compared to the median as well as personal numbers. I blow $1,650 a month, before auto/rent, with my pretty comfortable life. Even if children were at the same level of expenses (they are realistically maybe half that), family non-auto/rent is $6,600. The two cars throw in another $1000/month; housing is $2,200. That's about $9800 a month or $2,200/year in savings (18% rate)
  - kree10 15y ago
    I think you're underestimating child-related expenses. Since we're talking about both parents working full-time, just take the cost of child care: http://www.naccrra.org/randd/data/docs/CA.pdf http://www.naccrra.org/randd/data/docs/CA.pdf says this California family with 2 kids could be spending over $2000/mo on this alone, depending on how young they are. I'm not saying they won't necessarily have anything left, but $12k/mo still may not leave them much.
    - usaar333 15y ago
      I agree the family is taking more of a hit when the kids are young. However, this should amortize away as child care costs drop radically once the child is in school. I checked http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raising-child-calculator and they shoe cost of raising a child to be $1,525/month for 18 years for the highest income.
true_religion 15y ago