4 ms·

I wonder when rich countries (excluding Japan due to their culture) will start to agressively complete with each other for middle or high skilled foreign labour

I wonder when rich countries (excluding Japan due to their culture) will start to agressively complete with each other for middle or high skilled foreign labour to plug vital gaps. Offering not only green cards or EU blue cards, but eventual citizenship, university tenureship, guarantee minimum salaries and more goodies, without caps on the numbers per year. Kind of like how Dubai or Australia does for nurses today, but for all sectors of the economy.

csomar 4y ago
They already are (and are in trouble for that). The problem is not their refusal to accept foreigners but rather they are not fixing the real problem (low birth rates). You can fix the problem by increasing supply, creating new cities or satellite cities, etc… and they are not having superb growth either. The solution can be easily fixed. Most of Western cities are in a “failed state”. The US is a prime example of that. Japan, while quite functional, is also quite expensive to have kids in. I think Japan will be the Western state that fared the best out of all the Western countries. The US is definitively the worst: Being quite expensive while also quite dysfunctional, and with a bonus: high crime rate.
- patrickk 4y ago
  > The problem is not their refusal to accept foreigners but rather they are not fixing the real problem (low birth rates). How can you fix low birth rates once the process is in decline? Are there any successful examples of a country that has gotten rich, or is getting rich, that has done it succesfully? Every example I've read says no, regardless of geography or culture. It seems an impossible problem to fix. In South Korea for example, I've read they've tried a veriety of incentives, and none work. The pressure to climb into or stay in the middle class, squeezes families or would-be mothers to work more, leading inevitably to lower birth rates as wages have stagnated over the past few decades (oversimplyifing but this applies everywhere).
  - pjc50 4y ago
    It does not seem impossible to me: once there is a falling population, the house price pressure should ease. And no country has really pushed for paying people to have children.
    - lr4444lr 4y ago
      While I don't deny housing costs are a contributing factor in some (many?) cases, the strongest correlate seems to be legal and cultural female equality. I don't mean this judgmentally; it's simply by my crude observation the overwhelming factor. Childbearing requirements and expectations on the female just doesn't seem compatible with post-industrial era career aspirations.
    - patrickk 4y ago
      No country has pushed for paying people to have children... er what? This is simply false. Plenty of countries have monthly child benefit payments, just a few examples I know of [1], [2] [3] [4]. You can easily google "child benefits [country]" to find loads more examples. There are direct government payments and/or tax breaks in many countries. Countries with decent social welfare systems usually have some form of financial support during parental leave, for both mothers and fathers too. These efforts don't really have much of an impact to raise birth rates. [1] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_... [2] https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/child-benefits-germany-kindergeld https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/child-ben... [3] https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/child-benefit/before-you-claim/check-if-you-can-get-child-benefit/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/child-benefit/bef... [4] https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/asia/south-korea-worlds-lowest-fertility-rate-intl-hnk-dst/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/asia/south-korea-worlds-l...

csomar 4y ago

They already are (and are in trouble for that). The problem is not their refusal to accept foreigners but rather they are not fixing the real problem (low birth rates). You can fix the problem by increasing supply, creating new cities or satellite cities, etc… and they are not having superb growth either. The solution can be easily fixed. Most of Western cities are in a “failed state”. The US is a prime example of that. Japan, while quite functional, is also quite expensive to have kids in. I think Japan will be the Western state that fared the best out of all the Western countries. The US is definitively the worst: Being quite expensive while also quite dysfunctional, and with a bonus: high crime rate.

patrickk 4y ago
> The problem is not their refusal to accept foreigners but rather they are not fixing the real problem (low birth rates). How can you fix low birth rates once the process is in decline? Are there any successful examples of a country that has gotten rich, or is getting rich, that has done it succesfully? Every example I've read says no, regardless of geography or culture. It seems an impossible problem to fix. In South Korea for example, I've read they've tried a veriety of incentives, and none work. The pressure to climb into or stay in the middle class, squeezes families or would-be mothers to work more, leading inevitably to lower birth rates as wages have stagnated over the past few decades (oversimplyifing but this applies everywhere).
- pjc50 4y ago
  It does not seem impossible to me: once there is a falling population, the house price pressure should ease. And no country has really pushed for paying people to have children.
  - lr4444lr 4y ago
    While I don't deny housing costs are a contributing factor in some (many?) cases, the strongest correlate seems to be legal and cultural female equality. I don't mean this judgmentally; it's simply by my crude observation the overwhelming factor. Childbearing requirements and expectations on the female just doesn't seem compatible with post-industrial era career aspirations.
  - patrickk 4y ago
    No country has pushed for paying people to have children... er what? This is simply false. Plenty of countries have monthly child benefit payments, just a few examples I know of [1], [2] [3] [4]. You can easily google "child benefits [country]" to find loads more examples. There are direct government payments and/or tax breaks in many countries. Countries with decent social welfare systems usually have some form of financial support during parental leave, for both mothers and fathers too. These efforts don't really have much of an impact to raise birth rates. [1] https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_... [2] https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/child-benefits-germany-kindergeld https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/child-ben... [3] https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/child-benefit/before-you-claim/check-if-you-can-get-child-benefit/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/child-benefit/bef... [4] https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/asia/south-korea-worlds-lowest-fertility-rate-intl-hnk-dst/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/03/asia/south-korea-worlds-l...