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I remember when I got my first Mac (right around the time Snow Leopard got released) and all the programs looked and felt so consistent. Not just those made by

I remember when I got my first Mac (right around the time Snow Leopard got released) and all the programs looked and felt so consistent. Not just those made by apple, but also third party applications downloaded from some random corner of the internet. What really blew me away (and still does) is that apple somehow got people to care about their Human Interface Guidelines. At the time this was an entirely foreign concept to me. All the windows applications I used had very inconsistent behaviour, even though all the ui elements came from the same native toolkit. There wasn't even an App Store or a centralised repository to enforce this, and yet people thought it important to adhere to those guidelines. I think this is the reason why even today iOS apps feel like they have a slight advantage in quality. All of this comes with significant disadvantages, but there are upsides that are seemingly impossible to achieve otherwise.

HL33tibCe7 4y ago
Exactly, the Mac/iOS UX is coherent on a level that nothing else even comes close to. It’s a great example of doing many small things correctly, and the experience overall coming together as a result. Going back to using Windows or Android afterwards is painful. (Windows especially now that they insult their users with advertisements within their operating system by default, something Apple would never do in a million years).
- super256 4y ago
  The settings app on iOS is full with prompts to subscribe to iCloud and appletv (even showing you a red alert, which makes it looks like there is something wrong with your phone). They only go away if you subscribe. I still get the prompt for 1 year free appletv, although I already used that. When I click on it gets stuck on an infinite loading screen. Oh, and apple care prompts on new phones until your device is not eligible for that anymore.
  - nicce 4y ago
    They are first-party ads linked directly to the services you are already using at some level. Microsoft distributes third-party ads.
    - pityJuke 4y ago
      a) Apple TV is not necessarily a service I use. Neither is Apple News. b) Why does the ads being first-party suddenly make it more acceptable? Ads are ads, and I don't want them on my device, even if they are ads for my computer manufacturer's services.
- numpad0 4y ago
  Windows/Microsoft in $lang != en_US is also degrading constantly for some years to add salt to the wound. These days I see more and more of what are essentially adversarial examples that "compile" into English through machine translations.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > advertisements within their operating system by default, something Apple would never do in a million years That's outright not true. MacOS (by default) gives you pop-ups asking you to try the new Safari, and when you put on your headphones it launches Apple Music with a pop-up asking you to try their subscription. The settings app begs you to sign in and pay for iCloud storage. The default dock is loaded with useless SaaS that would be better-off uninstalled. I still have the friggin U2 promo! That's just MacOS. The water started to rise on iOS years ago, and it all contributed to me leaving Apple's ecosystem for good. This "premium" experience is meaningless if you just use it as premium ad space for your premium products. I'm going to pass on being a premium customer.
secretsatan 4y ago
They've alway been included in the pages describing how to prepare your app for submission, I always thought they were almost part of the review process, but they're mostly just good advice and worth following, and won't hurt your submission
karmelapple 4y ago
And this existed long before Mac OS X, too - it goes pretty much all the way back to the inception of the Mac. Even back with MacOS 6 vs Windows 95 when I was a child, I could easily see the difference.
temporallobe 4y ago
I generally agree, though with a huge exception for iTunes back in the day. The baffling changes from version to version were frustrating and the UI seemed to hide obvious functionality, causing me to constantly ask “why can’t I <do X>?”. IMO Apple really struggled with iTunes’ identity for the past 22 years as it split off into other independent apps.

HL33tibCe7 4y ago

Exactly, the Mac/iOS UX is coherent on a level that nothing else even comes close to. It’s a great example of doing many small things correctly, and the experience overall coming together as a result. Going back to using Windows or Android afterwards is painful. (Windows especially now that they insult their users with advertisements within their operating system by default, something Apple would never do in a million years).

super256 4y ago
The settings app on iOS is full with prompts to subscribe to iCloud and appletv (even showing you a red alert, which makes it looks like there is something wrong with your phone). They only go away if you subscribe. I still get the prompt for 1 year free appletv, although I already used that. When I click on it gets stuck on an infinite loading screen. Oh, and apple care prompts on new phones until your device is not eligible for that anymore.
- nicce 4y ago
  They are first-party ads linked directly to the services you are already using at some level. Microsoft distributes third-party ads.
  - pityJuke 4y ago
    a) Apple TV is not necessarily a service I use. Neither is Apple News. b) Why does the ads being first-party suddenly make it more acceptable? Ads are ads, and I don't want them on my device, even if they are ads for my computer manufacturer's services.
numpad0 4y ago
Windows/Microsoft in $lang != en_US is also degrading constantly for some years to add salt to the wound. These days I see more and more of what are essentially adversarial examples that "compile" into English through machine translations.
smoldesu 4y ago
> advertisements within their operating system by default, something Apple would never do in a million years That's outright not true. MacOS (by default) gives you pop-ups asking you to try the new Safari, and when you put on your headphones it launches Apple Music with a pop-up asking you to try their subscription. The settings app begs you to sign in and pay for iCloud storage. The default dock is loaded with useless SaaS that would be better-off uninstalled. I still have the friggin U2 promo! That's just MacOS. The water started to rise on iOS years ago, and it all contributed to me leaving Apple's ecosystem for good. This "premium" experience is meaningless if you just use it as premium ad space for your premium products. I'm going to pass on being a premium customer.

secretsatan 4y ago

They've alway been included in the pages describing how to prepare your app for submission, I always thought they were almost part of the review process, but they're mostly just good advice and worth following, and won't hurt your submission

karmelapple 4y ago

And this existed long before Mac OS X, too - it goes pretty much all the way back to the inception of the Mac. Even back with MacOS 6 vs Windows 95 when I was a child, I could easily see the difference.

temporallobe 4y ago

I generally agree, though with a huge exception for iTunes back in the day. The baffling changes from version to version were frustrating and the UI seemed to hide obvious functionality, causing me to constantly ask “why can’t I <do X>?”. IMO Apple really struggled with iTunes’ identity for the past 22 years as it split off into other independent apps.