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For those interested in computer music, Puckette also created Max/MSP[0], which is graphically based and potentially more approachable for a beginner. [0] http

For those interested in computer music, Puckette also created Max/MSP[0], which is graphically based and potentially more approachable for a beginner. [0] https://cycling74.com/products/max https://cycling74.com/products/max

geokon 4y ago
is it still relevant these days? from what ive saw last, touchdesigner was in a completely different league in quality and ease of use
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Max has graphics support and is much used by artists and people making arty minimalist (interactive) media. TD has more of a game-ish aesthetic. Max/Jitter is better for chopping up and distorting video streams and grunge-ifying them, with some simple renders and FX on top. As a music system - it's in a weird place, because it's incredibly awkward if you're used to even the most rudimentary coding. A construct that takes a minute or two in Python can take five or ten times longer in Max. But it has some decent DSP features, including custom DSP coding, so it's a good way to get certain things done. Or at least prototyped.
- ofalkaed 4y ago
  PureData and Max are primarily about synthesis and composition not multimedia, they are just capable of doing video as well. Both are still relevant. Different markets.
- immmmmm 4y ago
  imho, it's quite relevant when integrated with Ableton Live https://www.ableton.com/fr/live/max-for-live/ https://www.ableton.com/fr/live/max-for-live/
- enqk 4y ago
  people using touchdesigner often work with other tools, such as Max/MSP / Max4Live so I don't think it's really an either or thing
ofalkaed 4y ago
Well, Miller created Max, which back in those days was more about composition than synthesis and relied on external hardware to create sound. Another fella took Max and developed the commercial product and developed it some more. During this time home computers became good enough for realtime synthesis so Miller developed PD which combined aspects of Max with realtime audio synthesis capabilities. Max thought this was pretty great so integrated pd into Max which gave us Max/MSP, Max is Max Mathews who developed the Music(n) family of programing languages and MSP is Miller S. Puckette. I would not say that pd or Max/MSP is more approachable, they are pretty even these days unless you stick to vanilla pd with no externals which almost no one does, the main differences is that Max/MSP gives you all you need out of the box but pd can run just about anywhere including in plugins if you are that sort. Max/MSP is considerably more modern in aesthetic but PlugData[0] and PurrData[1] offer more modern interfaces for pd with a few new tricks, PlugData is a plugin version of pd (also standalone), Purrdata is a JavaScript rewrite of the interface with prepackaged externals and solid documentation. And we have a handful of other varieties of pd each which have their own slant and can be found on puredata.info. 0: https://plugdata.org https://plugdata.org 1: https://www.purrdata.net https://www.purrdata.net Edit, ok not having a dozen different varieties and hundreds of externals to choose from does make Max/MSP more approachable. I was mostly speaking from the standpoint of use but I realized all I did was say that pd is an example of a major flaw of OSS in the days of analysis paralysis.
- maxime_cb 4y ago
  Shameless plug: for something more approachable, I've created NoiseCraft, which runs in a web browser, has fewer primitives, and is designed to be easier for beginners to grasp: https://noisecraft.app/1136 https://noisecraft.app/1136 (just hit "Play" in the top-right corner). More examples you can try on the browse page: https://noisecraft.app/browse https://noisecraft.app/browse
  - chaosprint 4y ago
    Oh I love this! I share the same opinion on most of your design principles.

geokon 4y ago

is it still relevant these days? from what ive saw last, touchdesigner was in a completely different league in quality and ease of use

TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
Max has graphics support and is much used by artists and people making arty minimalist (interactive) media. TD has more of a game-ish aesthetic. Max/Jitter is better for chopping up and distorting video streams and grunge-ifying them, with some simple renders and FX on top. As a music system - it's in a weird place, because it's incredibly awkward if you're used to even the most rudimentary coding. A construct that takes a minute or two in Python can take five or ten times longer in Max. But it has some decent DSP features, including custom DSP coding, so it's a good way to get certain things done. Or at least prototyped.
ofalkaed 4y ago
PureData and Max are primarily about synthesis and composition not multimedia, they are just capable of doing video as well. Both are still relevant. Different markets.
immmmmm 4y ago
imho, it's quite relevant when integrated with Ableton Live https://www.ableton.com/fr/live/max-for-live/ https://www.ableton.com/fr/live/max-for-live/
enqk 4y ago
people using touchdesigner often work with other tools, such as Max/MSP / Max4Live so I don't think it's really an either or thing

ofalkaed 4y ago

Well, Miller created Max, which back in those days was more about composition than synthesis and relied on external hardware to create sound. Another fella took Max and developed the commercial product and developed it some more. During this time home computers became good enough for realtime synthesis so Miller developed PD which combined aspects of Max with realtime audio synthesis capabilities. Max thought this was pretty great so integrated pd into Max which gave us Max/MSP, Max is Max Mathews who developed the Music(n) family of programing languages and MSP is Miller S. Puckette. I would not say that pd or Max/MSP is more approachable, they are pretty even these days unless you stick to vanilla pd with no externals which almost no one does, the main differences is that Max/MSP gives you all you need out of the box but pd can run just about anywhere including in plugins if you are that sort. Max/MSP is considerably more modern in aesthetic but PlugData[0] and PurrData[1] offer more modern interfaces for pd with a few new tricks, PlugData is a plugin version of pd (also standalone), Purrdata is a JavaScript rewrite of the interface with prepackaged externals and solid documentation. And we have a handful of other varieties of pd each which have their own slant and can be found on puredata.info. 0: https://plugdata.org https://plugdata.org 1: https://www.purrdata.net https://www.purrdata.net Edit, ok not having a dozen different varieties and hundreds of externals to choose from does make Max/MSP more approachable. I was mostly speaking from the standpoint of use but I realized all I did was say that pd is an example of a major flaw of OSS in the days of analysis paralysis.

maxime_cb 4y ago
Shameless plug: for something more approachable, I've created NoiseCraft, which runs in a web browser, has fewer primitives, and is designed to be easier for beginners to grasp: https://noisecraft.app/1136 https://noisecraft.app/1136 (just hit "Play" in the top-right corner). More examples you can try on the browse page: https://noisecraft.app/browse https://noisecraft.app/browse
- chaosprint 4y ago
  Oh I love this! I share the same opinion on most of your design principles.