4 ms·

OP was asking about companies, not technologies. They weren't making the claim that say, academic research in codecs would be any worse off in the EU than elsew

OP was asking about companies, not technologies. They weren't making the claim that say, academic research in codecs would be any worse off in the EU than elsewhere. The fact that Europe is good at inventing underlying technologies isn't necessarily a counterargument to their claim. There are other internet/SaaS companies that are not consumer brands (ex. Cloudflare, Salesforce, etc.). But what you listed are not companies at all (other than some kind of small "company" that exists to support development resources for the project).

anigbrowl 4y ago
And I'm saying that that's a foolishly narrow focus to determine who should get to shape internet policy.
- px43 4y ago
  I think it's less about who can shape internet policy, and more of a rebuke on how technophobic regulation has led to Europe completely missing out on a key global industry despite many key innovations originating in Europe.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Europeans love technology, but they also love other things, like privacy and equitable outcomes. There is plenty of computer industry in Europe, it is just not as focused on consumer brands.
    - cbozeman 4y ago
      > equitable outcomes There's your problem right there. Soviet Russia ought to have shown everyone in Europe how well "equitable outcomes" work out. You'll never achieve equitable outcomes until you also achieve equitable input. Good luck with that.
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        Oh for heaven's sake. You seem to think any sort of policy choice balancing the interests of companies and consumers or maximizing accessibility of technology (like requiring USB-C ports) is Communism. Go poop on your own lawn if that's what you want to do.
        cbozeman 4y ago
        No, this is your hang up, not mine. You cannot have equitable outcomes, ever. Every single time it's ever been tried it's failed, and the reason you can't have them is because the planet is an ever-changing dynamic system. > You seem to think any sort of policy choice balancing the interests of companies and consumers or maximizing accessibility of technology (like requiring USB-C ports) is Communism. I do prefer to let the market decide, but the market's pretty much sold on USB-C. Apple wants to dominate everything and everyone - there's your lauded Communism for you, but I'm sure you'll proclaim, "That's not real Communism! I could do it better!" - so they're opposed to USB-C. Lemme guess, did you type this on an iPhone, or a MacBook? Since we're going to jump to ridiculous conclusions... Why do you hate black children so much? You must hate them... you're using technology that requires minerals that warlords force black children to mine! If you were really a believer in Communism, you'd buy a Fairphone and no laptop at all! See how ridiculous it sounds when you assume? There's a reason the adage goes, "When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Soviet Russia was a wolf in sheep's clothing. I wouldn't say it's such a great counterpoint about why sheeps are so bad.
        Nasrudith 4y ago
        Well given that the "sheep" keep on appropriating the wolf's symbolism and rhetoric, and get so very personally offended at every last fact about the which could be considered a slight against the wolf doesn't represent them, isn't exactly a good sign for the very pointy-toothed "sheep". It comes across as dishonest disavowal of something fully approved of but they don't want to own up to.
- int_19h 4y ago
  I think the point is that EU's attempt to shape internet policy is not going to get far if most companies with whom the consumers actually interact are not from EU. "Should" doesn't enter into it.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Every business has a website. GDPR compliance, albeit nominal, seems widespread, or there wouldn't be so many complaints about acknowledging cookies.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      And those websites that are designed for EU users will have EU rules applied. It's just that it'll remain trivial to go to the other website which does not have that, and people will do this as long as that other website feels more useful to them, for whatever reason.
      - anigbrowl 4y ago
        As I said above, the widespread compliance with GDPR opt-out regulations refutes your point. Perhaps there are some people boycotting all sites which offer such things, but I think their numbers are negligible.
        int_19h 4y ago
        The popups are cheap enough to implement, and don't meaningfully affect functionality of the site once you get past them; they're, at most, a minor annoyance. This scenario is different, though, if websites with non-EU-compliant AI backend can offer additional features. Which is practically a given.

anigbrowl 4y ago

And I'm saying that that's a foolishly narrow focus to determine who should get to shape internet policy.

px43 4y ago
I think it's less about who can shape internet policy, and more of a rebuke on how technophobic regulation has led to Europe completely missing out on a key global industry despite many key innovations originating in Europe.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Europeans love technology, but they also love other things, like privacy and equitable outcomes. There is plenty of computer industry in Europe, it is just not as focused on consumer brands.
  - cbozeman 4y ago
    > equitable outcomes There's your problem right there. Soviet Russia ought to have shown everyone in Europe how well "equitable outcomes" work out. You'll never achieve equitable outcomes until you also achieve equitable input. Good luck with that.
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      Oh for heaven's sake. You seem to think any sort of policy choice balancing the interests of companies and consumers or maximizing accessibility of technology (like requiring USB-C ports) is Communism. Go poop on your own lawn if that's what you want to do.
      - cbozeman 4y ago
        No, this is your hang up, not mine. You cannot have equitable outcomes, ever. Every single time it's ever been tried it's failed, and the reason you can't have them is because the planet is an ever-changing dynamic system. > You seem to think any sort of policy choice balancing the interests of companies and consumers or maximizing accessibility of technology (like requiring USB-C ports) is Communism. I do prefer to let the market decide, but the market's pretty much sold on USB-C. Apple wants to dominate everything and everyone - there's your lauded Communism for you, but I'm sure you'll proclaim, "That's not real Communism! I could do it better!" - so they're opposed to USB-C. Lemme guess, did you type this on an iPhone, or a MacBook? Since we're going to jump to ridiculous conclusions... Why do you hate black children so much? You must hate them... you're using technology that requires minerals that warlords force black children to mine! If you were really a believer in Communism, you'd buy a Fairphone and no laptop at all! See how ridiculous it sounds when you assume? There's a reason the adage goes, "When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Soviet Russia was a wolf in sheep's clothing. I wouldn't say it's such a great counterpoint about why sheeps are so bad.
      - Nasrudith 4y ago
        Well given that the "sheep" keep on appropriating the wolf's symbolism and rhetoric, and get so very personally offended at every last fact about the which could be considered a slight against the wolf doesn't represent them, isn't exactly a good sign for the very pointy-toothed "sheep". It comes across as dishonest disavowal of something fully approved of but they don't want to own up to.
int_19h 4y ago
I think the point is that EU's attempt to shape internet policy is not going to get far if most companies with whom the consumers actually interact are not from EU. "Should" doesn't enter into it.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Every business has a website. GDPR compliance, albeit nominal, seems widespread, or there wouldn't be so many complaints about acknowledging cookies.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    And those websites that are designed for EU users will have EU rules applied. It's just that it'll remain trivial to go to the other website which does not have that, and people will do this as long as that other website feels more useful to them, for whatever reason.
    - anigbrowl 4y ago
      As I said above, the widespread compliance with GDPR opt-out regulations refutes your point. Perhaps there are some people boycotting all sites which offer such things, but I think their numbers are negligible.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        The popups are cheap enough to implement, and don't meaningfully affect functionality of the site once you get past them; they're, at most, a minor annoyance. This scenario is different, though, if websites with non-EU-compliant AI backend can offer additional features. Which is practically a given.