3 ms·

> Do "secure keystores" just not exist? Probably not if we consider threat models evolving in the same userspace as where they're implemented (eg as cited: key

> Do "secure keystores" just not exist? Probably not if we consider threat models evolving in the same userspace as where they're implemented (eg as cited: keyloggers and malicious native programs). HSMs may provide an entrypoint to the "root of secrecy" problem, though the way they interface with the system now becomes the single point of defense.

quesomaster9000 4y ago
Years ago we were hopeful that the TPM would solve this problem, yay I rejoiced - a HSM on every computer. Just think of the possibilities! Aside from the specification documents being eye-wateringly painful to decipher, and the design committee resulting in something that's so utterly obtuse to use that the devil himself may have had a hand in the process... They forgot one tiny little thing: most units until very recently were deployed as a discrete component on the SPI bus, with all the commands & secrets passing back and forth in plaintext with no authentication or encryption. Unfortunately that rendered them unfit for purpose for a huge percentage of the use cases which were championed, it's almost as stupid as Windows uploading your BitLocker keys to Microsoft for 'safe keeping' - it's almost as if some devious three letter agency had influenced the decisions to fundamentally weaken cryptography for everybody.
- franky47 4y ago
  Even if we assume a proper protocol is in place (secrets remain in the HSM which is doing secure computation), the problem of trusting the hardware remains: how do we know a three letter agency isn't tampering with the HSM hardware assembly process to influence the keys being fused into it?
  - quesomaster9000 4y ago
    I don't necessarily care about the lettered agencies tampering with or backdooring hardware during the manufacturing process because there's nothing I can do about it, but when the best encryption manufacturers have to offer can be defeated by an average CS student with a <$1000 logic analyzer it shows a concerning defect in the process. This line of thinking makes me want to give up, buy a cottage in the woods, adopt 20 cats, burn all my computers and start trading artisanal pottery at the local farmers market.

quesomaster9000 4y ago

Years ago we were hopeful that the TPM would solve this problem, yay I rejoiced - a HSM on every computer. Just think of the possibilities! Aside from the specification documents being eye-wateringly painful to decipher, and the design committee resulting in something that's so utterly obtuse to use that the devil himself may have had a hand in the process... They forgot one tiny little thing: most units until very recently were deployed as a discrete component on the SPI bus, with all the commands & secrets passing back and forth in plaintext with no authentication or encryption. Unfortunately that rendered them unfit for purpose for a huge percentage of the use cases which were championed, it's almost as stupid as Windows uploading your BitLocker keys to Microsoft for 'safe keeping' - it's almost as if some devious three letter agency had influenced the decisions to fundamentally weaken cryptography for everybody.

franky47 4y ago
Even if we assume a proper protocol is in place (secrets remain in the HSM which is doing secure computation), the problem of trusting the hardware remains: how do we know a three letter agency isn't tampering with the HSM hardware assembly process to influence the keys being fused into it?
- quesomaster9000 4y ago
  I don't necessarily care about the lettered agencies tampering with or backdooring hardware during the manufacturing process because there's nothing I can do about it, but when the best encryption manufacturers have to offer can be defeated by an average CS student with a <$1000 logic analyzer it shows a concerning defect in the process. This line of thinking makes me want to give up, buy a cottage in the woods, adopt 20 cats, burn all my computers and start trading artisanal pottery at the local farmers market.