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Maybe you are just expending your willpower on things you really don't want to do? Maybe you don't want to be a programmer? Maybe go do something else. I don't

Maybe you are just expending your willpower on things you really don't want to do? Maybe you don't want to be a programmer? Maybe go do something else. I don't know your financial situation or goals but if you can make less money maybe find something entry level in another totally unrelated field. I took a 65% paycut once because I was in the same situation as you, completely burned on my career. I took an unrelated office job and was able to thrive because I had an existing skill set (technology) that made me standout. I was able to apply programming to speed up and automate processes at my new job. A lot of this was simple MS Office macros. I started to like programming again because I was doing it out of my own choice, no one expected it. I was quickly promoted becuase of this and got raises swiftly. This eventually led to the company allowing me to start my own company and build them a saas that they paid me for every month for a decade even after I left. I found I enjoyed development again. [ Years later, I found out, I just enjoy developing for myself but that's another story :) ]

Order 4y ago
Incredible story, thanks for sharing.
bruce343434 4y ago
> I just enjoy developing for myself That seems to be the main issue. I tried sysadmin for a while, it was more varied than a swe role and I enjoyed it more, but after a while it still became "boring" and mentally unbearable. I like writing software for myself however. I've had this issue since school. And as soon as a subject is done with, and the pressure of "have to" is relieved, I actually start to give a shit about it. By then however, I had already gotten a bad grade on the exam. I'm probably some kind of neurodivergent. Not sure what exactly is "wrong" with me, although I've had plenty of "professional" help.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Respectfully its going to be like this forever unless you decide to make a major change. This will be your next 60 years. Or it can be different in a few weeks / months. One idea, may not be your cup of tea though... I don't know your situation as far as family. Have you considered joining the military? It provides structure, a million different career paths, travel, comradery and physical fitness. Plus a pension if you stay in for 20 years. On top of that there are multiple branches to choose from depending on your wants. If I had reached burn out in my twenties, I would have joined the military.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    May not happen depending on what sort of “professional help” they’ve gotten.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      A valid point, I did overlook that.
  - bruce343434 4y ago
    I have considered it, but I'm not giving my life for my country. A country is just an emergent structure. There are others like it.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      There's always the airforce :)
      - bruce343434 4y ago
        Sorry, I don't think I get the joke. For context, I'm european (Netherlands). What other kind of "change" were you alluding to I could make? I'm not sure what it could be. It seems the root of my issue is that _having_ to do something makes me dislike it, to the point where my brain just mentally blocks and says "nope". I realize it's not normal, and it's a more (very) extreme version of procrastination perhaps.
        wonderwonder 4y ago
        I'm responding to the comment you made about dying for your country. Only pilots / special units fight in the air force, everyone else is support and relatively safe. No joke intended.
        tokinonagare 4y ago
        > It seems the root of my issue is that _having_ to do something makes me dislike it I'm like you: I have very hard time working on something someone tell me to do, yet I can spend hours working on my own projects without any issue. Of course this led to pretty big issues like failing my PhD and having to go back in my country. Then I quitted my first real job after 4 months because I was feeling I wasn't pay enough and the conditions weren't to my liking, and finally found a full remote one which pays quite a bit more. My advice would be to either find a job in which the conditions aren't too bad (4 days weeks, full remote, etc.), or a government worker like position where you can be paid doing jack shit.
rubicon33 4y ago
How did you find the courage to take a 65% pay cut? I'm in a very similar position to what you were probably in and honestly taking a random office job does feel like the "right" choice here. I could never stomach a 65% pay cut though because I have dreams/goals of someday not working at all. I save a significant portion of my income and live well within my means all toward a goal of retiring hopefully around 50 or 55. One could reasonably ask why I am delaying pleasure now for pleasure then, but my answer is simple. While I am burned out and while I am struggling, I'm not sure I am struggling as much as I would be at 50/55, potentially battling some horrible illness, and unable to stop working or even cut back because I had saved so little.
- checkyoursudo 4y ago
  I just have a couple of points to make that are not advice and not at all trying to tell you how to live. 1) My brother died from a sudden illness (genetic, but no known predisposition in our family, e.g., unavoidable) in his 30's with four young children. Stress was really bad for this. Accepting significant stress and burnout now for only a possibly low-stress future is not necessarily a good bet or trade-off. 2) My dad was a workaholic because he was worried about money and retirement and being the "invaluable employee" when I was a kid. He worked often until late at night and on weekends. He came to lots of my games and stuff, but he always missed everyday life. Always. He and his mates were all eventually "downsized" from his high-paying job at a Fortune 100 when they sold off his software development unit to a competitor when I was a late teenager. He realized he fucked up our relationships and was fucked up himself by the lack of work-life balance, and took a job that was less demanding and of course paid less, but it was already pretty late by then. I was maybe 17 or so already. You can't get that back, and our relationship was never the same as when I was really little. Anyway, a fat paycheck is nice, but there are other nice things in life too. I hope you do what is right for you.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    This resonates with me. My Father in laws retirement party was supposed to be this past weekend. He spent it in the hospital getting treated for a stroke. He pretty much did nothing but work.

Order 4y ago

Incredible story, thanks for sharing.

bruce343434 4y ago

> I just enjoy developing for myself That seems to be the main issue. I tried sysadmin for a while, it was more varied than a swe role and I enjoyed it more, but after a while it still became "boring" and mentally unbearable. I like writing software for myself however. I've had this issue since school. And as soon as a subject is done with, and the pressure of "have to" is relieved, I actually start to give a shit about it. By then however, I had already gotten a bad grade on the exam. I'm probably some kind of neurodivergent. Not sure what exactly is "wrong" with me, although I've had plenty of "professional" help.

wonderwonder 4y ago
Respectfully its going to be like this forever unless you decide to make a major change. This will be your next 60 years. Or it can be different in a few weeks / months. One idea, may not be your cup of tea though... I don't know your situation as far as family. Have you considered joining the military? It provides structure, a million different career paths, travel, comradery and physical fitness. Plus a pension if you stay in for 20 years. On top of that there are multiple branches to choose from depending on your wants. If I had reached burn out in my twenties, I would have joined the military.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  May not happen depending on what sort of “professional help” they’ve gotten.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    A valid point, I did overlook that.
- bruce343434 4y ago
  I have considered it, but I'm not giving my life for my country. A country is just an emergent structure. There are others like it.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    There's always the airforce :)
    - bruce343434 4y ago
      Sorry, I don't think I get the joke. For context, I'm european (Netherlands). What other kind of "change" were you alluding to I could make? I'm not sure what it could be. It seems the root of my issue is that _having_ to do something makes me dislike it, to the point where my brain just mentally blocks and says "nope". I realize it's not normal, and it's a more (very) extreme version of procrastination perhaps.
      - wonderwonder 4y ago
        I'm responding to the comment you made about dying for your country. Only pilots / special units fight in the air force, everyone else is support and relatively safe. No joke intended.
      - tokinonagare 4y ago
        > It seems the root of my issue is that _having_ to do something makes me dislike it I'm like you: I have very hard time working on something someone tell me to do, yet I can spend hours working on my own projects without any issue. Of course this led to pretty big issues like failing my PhD and having to go back in my country. Then I quitted my first real job after 4 months because I was feeling I wasn't pay enough and the conditions weren't to my liking, and finally found a full remote one which pays quite a bit more. My advice would be to either find a job in which the conditions aren't too bad (4 days weeks, full remote, etc.), or a government worker like position where you can be paid doing jack shit.

rubicon33 4y ago

How did you find the courage to take a 65% pay cut? I'm in a very similar position to what you were probably in and honestly taking a random office job does feel like the "right" choice here. I could never stomach a 65% pay cut though because I have dreams/goals of someday not working at all. I save a significant portion of my income and live well within my means all toward a goal of retiring hopefully around 50 or 55. One could reasonably ask why I am delaying pleasure now for pleasure then, but my answer is simple. While I am burned out and while I am struggling, I'm not sure I am struggling as much as I would be at 50/55, potentially battling some horrible illness, and unable to stop working or even cut back because I had saved so little.

checkyoursudo 4y ago
I just have a couple of points to make that are not advice and not at all trying to tell you how to live. 1) My brother died from a sudden illness (genetic, but no known predisposition in our family, e.g., unavoidable) in his 30's with four young children. Stress was really bad for this. Accepting significant stress and burnout now for only a possibly low-stress future is not necessarily a good bet or trade-off. 2) My dad was a workaholic because he was worried about money and retirement and being the "invaluable employee" when I was a kid. He worked often until late at night and on weekends. He came to lots of my games and stuff, but he always missed everyday life. Always. He and his mates were all eventually "downsized" from his high-paying job at a Fortune 100 when they sold off his software development unit to a competitor when I was a late teenager. He realized he fucked up our relationships and was fucked up himself by the lack of work-life balance, and took a job that was less demanding and of course paid less, but it was already pretty late by then. I was maybe 17 or so already. You can't get that back, and our relationship was never the same as when I was really little. Anyway, a fat paycheck is nice, but there are other nice things in life too. I hope you do what is right for you.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  This resonates with me. My Father in laws retirement party was supposed to be this past weekend. He spent it in the hospital getting treated for a stroke. He pretty much did nothing but work.