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The USA has different ideas. > "‘Gruyere’ can be used to describe US cheeses, court rules" > A US appeals court has ruled that the word “gruyere” is a common

The USA has different ideas. > "‘Gruyere’ can be used to describe US cheeses, court rules" > A US appeals court has ruled that the word “gruyere” is a common label for cheese and cannot be reserved just for the kind made originally in France or Switzerland. This will cause trouble for trade deals between the EU and USA, since Europe wants to protect their regional 'brands' in a similar way to trademarks. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/04/gruyere-describe-us-cheeses-court-rules https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/04/gruyere-desc...

kube-system 4y ago
I don’t think it makes sense to make broad generalizations across product types, languages, or locale on this topic. Expectations vary with context. In some places for some things, a regional description might be interpreted by people to mean “in the style of”, and for others it may be presumed to mean “originates from”. There are ton of examples of things that would be assumed to be one or the other. Neither are a “wrong” use of language. The problem is when the descriptors are used in a way that deceives purchasers.
- ElFitz 4y ago
  It’s not a matter of using the language properly; it’s a branding matter. It also isn’t just about the origin. "Gruyere", "Cantal" or "Champagne" aren’t only about where the thing is made, but also how it is made, and using what. It also isn’t just about consumers. Those who stand the most to loose from deceiving bad actors are the other producers. Like what happened with cheddar. Most people know it as a pleasant and yet tasteless plastic-encased slices of yellow whatever that they put in their burger. When it actually is a nice and tasty cheese.
  - djbusby 4y ago
    Those cheeses are Kraft Singles, they are American Cheese - not cheddar. The real crime of those slices is calling them cheese.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      They’re labeled as a “pasteurized prepared cheese product”, not as cheese.
    - mastax 4y ago
      Kraft Singles are only about 50% cheese, so it's fair to call them "not cheese". You can get process cheese that is actually cheese from brands such as Boars Head. The "process" part just means there's an emulsifier added so the cheese doesn't break when it melts. Despite the sciencey name, there's nothing bad about emulsifiers. https://www.seriouseats.com/whats-really-in-american-cheese https://www.seriouseats.com/whats-really-in-american-cheese
    - ElFitz 4y ago
      Oh, I’m definitely with you on that. It’s just that all around the world American Cheese is now often, although wrongly, mistaken for cheddar. And most people have no idea what actual cheddar looks or tastes like. Which is precisely what these stringent and sometimes somewhat absurd rules try to prevent.
  - scottLobster 4y ago
    Uh, yeah it is just about the origin. You could fly in all the ingredients used in the Champagne region to an exact replica of a Champagne winery in the same climatic zone manned entirely by French immigrants who formerly worked in an actual Champagne winery, and wouldn't be allowed to call it Champagne. One of Europe's prime exports is its "culture". People pay a lot of money to vacation in various European locales to taste "authentic" whatever where it was originally produced, even if they couldn't tell the difference between it and something made down the road in an Illinois industrial park. Without location-based brand enforcement those locations would lose a big income stream, never mind the "authentic" mark-up they get on their exported products. As for cheddar, you can buy fancy imported cheddar at Walmart, never mind Whole Foods and the other upmarket chains that will have entire dedicated sections to fancy cheeses imported from all over the world. The reason it got the reputation you describe is simply cost. Same reason Folgers and Maxwell House are still on the shelves despite the insane variety of better coffee available these days.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      For it to be "just about the origin", what you describe is not enough. You'd need to establish the inverse as well: that you could bring in the raw materials from outside the region, use a different production method, and still call it Champagne. That all that matters is the production region. And that's demonstrably not the case.
      - scottLobster 4y ago
        The origin is the only factor that has no theoretical impact on the quality of the finished product. It's a purely political poison pill for any would-be producer, which means at the end of the day it is all about the location. If I offered you a perfectly functional car, but added an unnecessary kill switch that prevented you from starting it without my express and arbitrary permission, would the deciding factor in your purchasing decision be the build quality of the engine, or that kill switch?
    - ElFitz 4y ago
      You are quite frankly proving my point: that it is, first and foremost, a branding matter.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I made the generalization since the EU and UK make the generalizations, codify them into law, and spread them in trade agreements (see [1]). That includes with the USA, which has 683 registered foods/drinks in the EU register [2]. Without the rules on what is and isn't Champagne or Napa Valley wine, we can be sure manufacturers would be putting the label on other products to deceive purchasers. [1] https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/new-geographical-indications-added-eu-korea-trade-agreement-2022-11-30_en https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/new-geographical-indic... [2] https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/search https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/search
  - kube-system 4y ago
    That’s is what I’m referring to. There are specific rules and expectations that exist in some places, but neither these laws nor the associated consumer expectations are global in scope. Re: Champaign: it was long used as a descriptor of a style of wine in the US and consumers are familiar with that usage here. And to this day, it is still used that way on wines that are on the shelf, and aren’t made in France at all. Politically, there were some concessions made, but it wasn’t anything to do with consumer protections.
thiht 4y ago
It must be so painful to buy anything of good quality in the US if you can name things however you want.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  That's not exactly true either... there seem to be some rules, Americans are just think some European words are generic, where Europeans tend to know what they mean. As an example of where the US system seems to work, you can buy "parmesan" which seems to be some kind of a sawdust-based product, or "reggiano parmegiano", which is a cheese.

kube-system 4y ago

I don’t think it makes sense to make broad generalizations across product types, languages, or locale on this topic. Expectations vary with context. In some places for some things, a regional description might be interpreted by people to mean “in the style of”, and for others it may be presumed to mean “originates from”. There are ton of examples of things that would be assumed to be one or the other. Neither are a “wrong” use of language. The problem is when the descriptors are used in a way that deceives purchasers.

ElFitz 4y ago
It’s not a matter of using the language properly; it’s a branding matter. It also isn’t just about the origin. "Gruyere", "Cantal" or "Champagne" aren’t only about where the thing is made, but also how it is made, and using what. It also isn’t just about consumers. Those who stand the most to loose from deceiving bad actors are the other producers. Like what happened with cheddar. Most people know it as a pleasant and yet tasteless plastic-encased slices of yellow whatever that they put in their burger. When it actually is a nice and tasty cheese.
- djbusby 4y ago
  Those cheeses are Kraft Singles, they are American Cheese - not cheddar. The real crime of those slices is calling them cheese.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    They’re labeled as a “pasteurized prepared cheese product”, not as cheese.
  - mastax 4y ago
    Kraft Singles are only about 50% cheese, so it's fair to call them "not cheese". You can get process cheese that is actually cheese from brands such as Boars Head. The "process" part just means there's an emulsifier added so the cheese doesn't break when it melts. Despite the sciencey name, there's nothing bad about emulsifiers. https://www.seriouseats.com/whats-really-in-american-cheese https://www.seriouseats.com/whats-really-in-american-cheese
  - ElFitz 4y ago
    Oh, I’m definitely with you on that. It’s just that all around the world American Cheese is now often, although wrongly, mistaken for cheddar. And most people have no idea what actual cheddar looks or tastes like. Which is precisely what these stringent and sometimes somewhat absurd rules try to prevent.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  Uh, yeah it is just about the origin. You could fly in all the ingredients used in the Champagne region to an exact replica of a Champagne winery in the same climatic zone manned entirely by French immigrants who formerly worked in an actual Champagne winery, and wouldn't be allowed to call it Champagne. One of Europe's prime exports is its "culture". People pay a lot of money to vacation in various European locales to taste "authentic" whatever where it was originally produced, even if they couldn't tell the difference between it and something made down the road in an Illinois industrial park. Without location-based brand enforcement those locations would lose a big income stream, never mind the "authentic" mark-up they get on their exported products. As for cheddar, you can buy fancy imported cheddar at Walmart, never mind Whole Foods and the other upmarket chains that will have entire dedicated sections to fancy cheeses imported from all over the world. The reason it got the reputation you describe is simply cost. Same reason Folgers and Maxwell House are still on the shelves despite the insane variety of better coffee available these days.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    For it to be "just about the origin", what you describe is not enough. You'd need to establish the inverse as well: that you could bring in the raw materials from outside the region, use a different production method, and still call it Champagne. That all that matters is the production region. And that's demonstrably not the case.
    - scottLobster 4y ago
      The origin is the only factor that has no theoretical impact on the quality of the finished product. It's a purely political poison pill for any would-be producer, which means at the end of the day it is all about the location. If I offered you a perfectly functional car, but added an unnecessary kill switch that prevented you from starting it without my express and arbitrary permission, would the deciding factor in your purchasing decision be the build quality of the engine, or that kill switch?
  - ElFitz 4y ago
    You are quite frankly proving my point: that it is, first and foremost, a branding matter.
Symbiote 4y ago
I made the generalization since the EU and UK make the generalizations, codify them into law, and spread them in trade agreements (see [1]). That includes with the USA, which has 683 registered foods/drinks in the EU register [2]. Without the rules on what is and isn't Champagne or Napa Valley wine, we can be sure manufacturers would be putting the label on other products to deceive purchasers. [1] https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/new-geographical-indications-added-eu-korea-trade-agreement-2022-11-30_en https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/new-geographical-indic... [2] https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/search https://www.tmdn.org/giview/gi/search
- kube-system 4y ago
  That’s is what I’m referring to. There are specific rules and expectations that exist in some places, but neither these laws nor the associated consumer expectations are global in scope. Re: Champaign: it was long used as a descriptor of a style of wine in the US and consumers are familiar with that usage here. And to this day, it is still used that way on wines that are on the shelf, and aren’t made in France at all. Politically, there were some concessions made, but it wasn’t anything to do with consumer protections.

thiht 4y ago

It must be so painful to buy anything of good quality in the US if you can name things however you want.

yencabulator 4y ago
That's not exactly true either... there seem to be some rules, Americans are just think some European words are generic, where Europeans tend to know what they mean. As an example of where the US system seems to work, you can buy "parmesan" which seems to be some kind of a sawdust-based product, or "reggiano parmegiano", which is a cheese.