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> I've set the benchmark to how many UN members endorse the view You could have just said you blindly support the US position regardless of facts, and saved us

by yucky 4y ago

> I've set the benchmark to how many UN members endorse the view You could have just said you blindly support the US position regardless of facts, and saved us both some time.

mopsi 4y ago
If you think that the US controls foreign policy of almost all 193 members of the United Nations, including some if its greatest rivals like China, then this is just another view not supported by reality.
- yucky 4y ago
  US de facto controls foreign policy through the UN and other international orgs for a majority of countries on earth. China and Russia are the two largest exceptions. We use economic pressure like a bully. This is a fact that nobody would dispute. You can agree with the aims of the US without pretending that we don't force other nations to do our bidding all the time. Meanwhile, you never addressed the point that the US invades more nations than anybody else. Why are you ignoring that?
  - mopsi 4y ago
    > US de facto controls foreign policy through the UN and other international orgs for a majority of countries on earth. This is demonstrably false. For example, the US was very strongly against the UN resolution that declared Jerusalem's status as Israel's capital null and void, but nevertheless the resolution passed with 128 votes against 9.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_resolution_ES-10/19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl...
    - yucky 4y ago
      Meanwhile, you never addressed the point that the US invades more nations than anybody else. Why are you ignoring that?
      - mopsi 4y ago
        I am not interested in introducing another debunked internet copypasta into this conversation. It bears no relevance to the international recognition of LNR and DNR's independence, legitimacy of Ukraine's government and the Crimean referendum. It seems like you have nothing to respond to the fact that these events have no international recognition whatsoever, nor can you explain it within the framework of your beliefs without resorting to easily debunkable conspiratorial thinking. That's an indication that your beliefs may be wrong.
        yucky 4y ago
        > It bears no relevance to the international recognition of LNR and DNR's independence, legitimacy of Ukraine's government and the Crimean referendum. Sure it does, it speaks to our hypocrisy and why our position on these matters is irrelevant. We recognize Kosovo and twist others arms to do so, and then not respect Crimeans desire to be annexed to Russia or LNR & DNR independence for no other reason than it doesn't fit our foreign policy objectives. It has nothing to do with the desires of the actual people that live there. But you're right, it's a waste of time to discuss. You're such an apologist for our foreign policy fuckups that you can't even acknowledge the trainwrecks we've caused along the way.
        mopsi 4y ago
        I already showed how the assumption that the US can "twist others' arms" is not gounded in reality. The UN has a long and rich history of adopting resolutions that criticise US policy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, yet here no-one sides with Russia. It's quite surprising that even Belarus, which is internationally isolated, heavily depends on Russia, is deeply infiltrated by Russian intelligence services, and hosts a large contingent of Russian armed forces on its territory (to the extent that some don't even consider it independent anymore), refuses to fully endorse Russian narrative. Are they too under American influence? Takes a strange kind of provincialism to attribute everything that's going on in the world to the US.
        4y ago

by yucky 4y ago

> I've set the benchmark to how many UN members endorse the view You could have just said you blindly support the US position regardless of facts, and saved us both some time.

mopsi 4y ago

If you think that the US controls foreign policy of almost all 193 members of the United Nations, including some if its greatest rivals like China, then this is just another view not supported by reality.

yucky 4y ago
US de facto controls foreign policy through the UN and other international orgs for a majority of countries on earth. China and Russia are the two largest exceptions. We use economic pressure like a bully. This is a fact that nobody would dispute. You can agree with the aims of the US without pretending that we don't force other nations to do our bidding all the time. Meanwhile, you never addressed the point that the US invades more nations than anybody else. Why are you ignoring that?
- mopsi 4y ago
  > US de facto controls foreign policy through the UN and other international orgs for a majority of countries on earth. This is demonstrably false. For example, the US was very strongly against the UN resolution that declared Jerusalem's status as Israel's capital null and void, but nevertheless the resolution passed with 128 votes against 9.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_resolution_ES-10/19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl...
  - yucky 4y ago
    Meanwhile, you never addressed the point that the US invades more nations than anybody else. Why are you ignoring that?
    - mopsi 4y ago
      I am not interested in introducing another debunked internet copypasta into this conversation. It bears no relevance to the international recognition of LNR and DNR's independence, legitimacy of Ukraine's government and the Crimean referendum. It seems like you have nothing to respond to the fact that these events have no international recognition whatsoever, nor can you explain it within the framework of your beliefs without resorting to easily debunkable conspiratorial thinking. That's an indication that your beliefs may be wrong.
      - yucky 4y ago
        > It bears no relevance to the international recognition of LNR and DNR's independence, legitimacy of Ukraine's government and the Crimean referendum. Sure it does, it speaks to our hypocrisy and why our position on these matters is irrelevant. We recognize Kosovo and twist others arms to do so, and then not respect Crimeans desire to be annexed to Russia or LNR & DNR independence for no other reason than it doesn't fit our foreign policy objectives. It has nothing to do with the desires of the actual people that live there. But you're right, it's a waste of time to discuss. You're such an apologist for our foreign policy fuckups that you can't even acknowledge the trainwrecks we've caused along the way.
        mopsi 4y ago
        I already showed how the assumption that the US can "twist others' arms" is not gounded in reality. The UN has a long and rich history of adopting resolutions that criticise US policy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, yet here no-one sides with Russia. It's quite surprising that even Belarus, which is internationally isolated, heavily depends on Russia, is deeply infiltrated by Russian intelligence services, and hosts a large contingent of Russian armed forces on its territory (to the extent that some don't even consider it independent anymore), refuses to fully endorse Russian narrative. Are they too under American influence? Takes a strange kind of provincialism to attribute everything that's going on in the world to the US.
        4y ago