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WhatsApp is supposedly end to end encrypted. Does Meta claim anything similar about its other platforms?
by unmole 4y ago
WhatsApp is supposedly end to end encrypted. Does Meta claim anything similar about its other platforms?
- mulmen 4y agoIs it really? I always assumed it was like Zoom end to end encryption where one of the “ends” is a Facebook data center. How can a user prove the claim of end to end encryption?
- caf 4y agoThere was a bit of a song and dance when Whatsapp adopted the Signal protocol. Certainly if you choose not to back up your Whatsapp messages, your old messages aren't available when you switch phones. If they're not end-to-end encrypted, they're engaging in a lot of deception to indicate that they are.
- jeroenhd 4y agoThey are if you enable encryption (with your own key, of course). The default backups are insecure, though.
- mulmen 4y agoExcept you provide the key to the app and the app is controlled by FB. There’s really no way to prove the key stays on your device. Or that your messages aren’t just forwarded without encryption to a FB datacenter.
- mulmen 4y agoThanks, I don’t have much experience with WhatsApp. I don’t have a lot of faith in Facebook. Especially post-Snowden. If you think you need E2EE you can really only achieve that on an open system you control and have intimate knowledge of. You can’t trust precompiled binaries. Something something trusting trust. This isn’t a problem technology can solve. Women shouldn’t need to be information security experts just to ask questions about their own bodies.
- unmole 4y ago> Especially post-Snowden. What does Snowden have to do with Facebook? I'm asking in good faith.
- jeroenhd 4y agoAlmost all of WhatsApp has been E2EE for years, based on the same protocol Signal uses. This goes for text messages (personal and groups) and calls. Cloud backups are not encrypted by default, but encryption can be enabled. WhatsApp doesn't have an open source client so verification is difficult. However, if someone were able to break the encryption, I'm sure it'd be in the headlines of most newspapers. One exception is WhatsApp business: I don't know the details, but Facebook offers a service where they will do some chat automation for your business which means they must receive the keys. In terms of security: key changes are automatically accepted. They are hidden by default, but by toggling a setting every time a user updates their keys, a message will be introduced into the chat. QR code key validation has been in the app for years now, though I doubt many users are using the feature.
- mulmen 4y agoHow do you tell the difference between true E2EE and Zoom E2EE where FB decrypts the message in the middle? Or otherwise backdoors the exchange, perhaps outside the Signal protocol? Ultimately you are trusting Facebook to tell the truth here.
- salawat 4y agoYou read the bloody code, and you run the infrastructure. Not your hardware, not your system. There is no alternative.
- ccouzens 4y ago> how can a user (without deep technical knowledge and skills) prove the claim of end to end encryption? Checking to see if investigations include evidence from messages on these platforms excepting: Messages sent by the user to someone who distributes them further Or investigators getting control of the phone. --- WhatsApp stands up to that test.
- salawat 4y agoExcept, parallel construction is a thing; jealously guarded by law enforcement as well.
- timbit42 4y agoE2E encrypted doesn't mean they don't know who is messaging whom. If there is suspicious contact, can they request who contacted a pharmacy? Then they can ask the pharmacy why so-and-so contacted them. A better option would be something like Briar which hides IPs via Tor.