4 ms·

> Just look at the communities in some poorer parts of the UK, who were relying on coal, mining and steam locomotive(yes, for that many generations the effects

> Just look at the communities in some poorer parts of the UK, who were relying on coal, mining and steam locomotive(yes, for that many generations the effects of job losses are felt) In order to make money selling coal, someone has to buy that coal. They're selling something that nobody buys anymore. Try selling ice cubes in the North Pole. The purpose of those coal jobs was jobs creation, not problem solving. New generations need to be re skilled in understanding that jobs don't come from government policies but from problem solving. And government can only create new problems.

flangola7 4y ago
Government can also create solutions that solve problems. Hoover dam being one excellent on-topic example.
- frankreyes 4y ago
  It's ok to give an example to show a contradiction, but it's a mistake to use an example to point a generalization. Hoover dam is a bad example which can not be generalized into the "government is net positive problem solver" argument.
  - optimalsolver 4y ago
    For one thing, everyone in the West who's fallen on hard times has been pretty grateful their government didn't let them starve to death. This general, wide-impact instance of problem-solving is why the public will never allow libertarians anywhere near power.
    - frankreyes 4y ago
      The US is the single largest food and energy producing country in the world. The US economy barely depends on exports to work and it's most important trading partners are the two neighbors, Mexico and Canada. Mexico for labor and Canada for fertilizer. There is no other country in the world with the relative and absolute advantages of the US. And that has nothing to do thanks to government, but instead despite government. In particular, the USA energy supply kept running of fossil fuels, which is the government just doing nothing. The USA is in a position to take a lot of bad choices and still have a great economy. The rest of the world only chance to have a good economy is to make good choices. The next possible country that had a proven track record of very bad choices and still working out is Argentina. Net positive Food and energy producer. And yes, they tried hard to f*k it.
      - flangola7 4y ago
        This still sounds like Reaganism "Government is the problem" rhetoric. Sum GDP is not a good measure of a country, particularly when it is concentrated in a very small group of people. If citizens (as carried out by their democratic representative government) give corporations an inch, they will take a hundred miles.
harvey9 4y ago
There were lots of buyers of coal at the time UK mines closed, but other sellers were able to supply at a lower price. There continue to be buyers of coal now, and indeed the UK recently approved a new mine https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381
- frankreyes 4y ago
  Yes, basic Economics, price is determined at the margins. Europe is learning the hard way that fossil fuels are the best energy supply to heat your homes. There's no sun shining in the UK and for some reason you want to run on solar power to heat your homes? Tell me about madness
deleted 4y ago
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flangola7 4y ago

Government can also create solutions that solve problems. Hoover dam being one excellent on-topic example.

frankreyes 4y ago
It's ok to give an example to show a contradiction, but it's a mistake to use an example to point a generalization. Hoover dam is a bad example which can not be generalized into the "government is net positive problem solver" argument.
- optimalsolver 4y ago
  For one thing, everyone in the West who's fallen on hard times has been pretty grateful their government didn't let them starve to death. This general, wide-impact instance of problem-solving is why the public will never allow libertarians anywhere near power.
  - frankreyes 4y ago
    The US is the single largest food and energy producing country in the world. The US economy barely depends on exports to work and it's most important trading partners are the two neighbors, Mexico and Canada. Mexico for labor and Canada for fertilizer. There is no other country in the world with the relative and absolute advantages of the US. And that has nothing to do thanks to government, but instead despite government. In particular, the USA energy supply kept running of fossil fuels, which is the government just doing nothing. The USA is in a position to take a lot of bad choices and still have a great economy. The rest of the world only chance to have a good economy is to make good choices. The next possible country that had a proven track record of very bad choices and still working out is Argentina. Net positive Food and energy producer. And yes, they tried hard to f*k it.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      This still sounds like Reaganism "Government is the problem" rhetoric. Sum GDP is not a good measure of a country, particularly when it is concentrated in a very small group of people. If citizens (as carried out by their democratic representative government) give corporations an inch, they will take a hundred miles.

harvey9 4y ago

There were lots of buyers of coal at the time UK mines closed, but other sellers were able to supply at a lower price. There continue to be buyers of coal now, and indeed the UK recently approved a new mine https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63892381

frankreyes 4y ago
Yes, basic Economics, price is determined at the margins. Europe is learning the hard way that fossil fuels are the best energy supply to heat your homes. There's no sun shining in the UK and for some reason you want to run on solar power to heat your homes? Tell me about madness

deleted 4y ago

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