4 ms·

I agree Marcan instigates a lot of twitter drama, but "hundreds of configurations worked very well on Linux" is kind of a stretch unless you're counting headles

by NavinF 4y ago

I agree Marcan instigates a lot of twitter drama, but "hundreds of configurations worked very well on Linux" is kind of a stretch unless you're counting headless servers and really low end machines. There's a reason why Linux desktop has 1% market share (mostly chromebooks) and it's not because of Microsoft. I appreciate the work those devs did, but they really didn't move the needle. Neither has Marcan, but hey at least he is acting like a product guy and prioritizing features that are deal breakers on pretty much every other Linux system.

izacus 4y ago
He's building out same features that already work on many other devices. Yes, there are hundreds of laptop models with fully working hardware (including sleep, bluetooth, speakers, power saving and whatnot), so there have already been plenty of developers that were "product" guys. And that's all even if we ignore Android and ChromeOS devices exist. It doesn't make Hectors contribution any less important for all of the Apple fans, but putting down other Linux developers like this is disgusting.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  Exactly. These days there are several vendors preinstalling GNU/Linux on their machines where everything works, and it's really not hard to find machines where it's not preinstalled but where everything works anyway. These memes are memes because it's also not hard to stumble upon a machine where it doesn't if you just take a random one, but that's hardly surprising - just take a look at how much effort it takes to run Windows on Steam Deck and have everything work well there. Someone needs to put that effort first when the vendor does not. I love those "I had issues so everyone else must have had them too" takes. I can give some anecdata too: the last integration issue I had on machines I've been running GNU/Linux on was a non-working SoundBlaster Audigy card somewhere around 2006 - and I've been mostly using laptops afterwards, some of them being from vendors that didn't provide any GNU/Linux support at all. (that sound card eventually gained support in ALSA, by the way)
  - cassepipe 4y ago
    He does make a point of wanting things to work well. I have been using Linux on a 2013 laptop for five years now and I can't say I have ever run into a problem. I do remember having to install some obscure wifi driver (that was in the repo!) for some other older machine but that is all. But I am not sure it works well. Hibernation never worked. Was performance, sound optimal ? Battery life ? I love that they are working on thing like that.
Kwpolska 4y ago
Hardware support is not the reason why Linux has 1% market share. Most users get a fully licensed copy of Windows bundled with their laptop, and it works, and it does everything they want, so why change it? I would argue that the software side is more important, with Linux still sucking at HiDPI setups (as seen in ~every non-ultra-cheap laptop) and with GNOME being GNOME.
- NavinF 4y ago
  For non-OEM desktop PCs, I completely agree that it's all about userspace. Last time I tried daily driving Linux, the terrible HiDPI support (after 4K panels have been widely available for a decade) was one of my biggest issues along with the weird frame pacing that made some apps feel as smooth as sandpaper even on relatively fast 120Hz VRR hardware. For laptops however, hardware support is still terrible or nonexistent. If you have a modern wifi 6/6E chipset, a fingerprint sensor, or a webcam that uses the chipset ISP, there's a very good chance it's unusable. Battery life is still a decade behind state of the art.
  - Kwpolska 4y ago
    My Dell laptop’s got a WiFi 6 card and a fingerprint sensor. The WiFi card works (although I don’t have a WiFi 6 network). The fingerprint lets me register fingerprints, but I can’t log in with it, which is probably another case of crappy software.

by NavinF 4y ago

izacus 4y ago

He's building out same features that already work on many other devices. Yes, there are hundreds of laptop models with fully working hardware (including sleep, bluetooth, speakers, power saving and whatnot), so there have already been plenty of developers that were "product" guys. And that's all even if we ignore Android and ChromeOS devices exist. It doesn't make Hectors contribution any less important for all of the Apple fans, but putting down other Linux developers like this is disgusting.

seba_dos1 4y ago
Exactly. These days there are several vendors preinstalling GNU/Linux on their machines where everything works, and it's really not hard to find machines where it's not preinstalled but where everything works anyway. These memes are memes because it's also not hard to stumble upon a machine where it doesn't if you just take a random one, but that's hardly surprising - just take a look at how much effort it takes to run Windows on Steam Deck and have everything work well there. Someone needs to put that effort first when the vendor does not. I love those "I had issues so everyone else must have had them too" takes. I can give some anecdata too: the last integration issue I had on machines I've been running GNU/Linux on was a non-working SoundBlaster Audigy card somewhere around 2006 - and I've been mostly using laptops afterwards, some of them being from vendors that didn't provide any GNU/Linux support at all. (that sound card eventually gained support in ALSA, by the way)
- cassepipe 4y ago
  He does make a point of wanting things to work well. I have been using Linux on a 2013 laptop for five years now and I can't say I have ever run into a problem. I do remember having to install some obscure wifi driver (that was in the repo!) for some other older machine but that is all. But I am not sure it works well. Hibernation never worked. Was performance, sound optimal ? Battery life ? I love that they are working on thing like that.

Kwpolska 4y ago

Hardware support is not the reason why Linux has 1% market share. Most users get a fully licensed copy of Windows bundled with their laptop, and it works, and it does everything they want, so why change it? I would argue that the software side is more important, with Linux still sucking at HiDPI setups (as seen in ~every non-ultra-cheap laptop) and with GNOME being GNOME.

NavinF 4y ago
For non-OEM desktop PCs, I completely agree that it's all about userspace. Last time I tried daily driving Linux, the terrible HiDPI support (after 4K panels have been widely available for a decade) was one of my biggest issues along with the weird frame pacing that made some apps feel as smooth as sandpaper even on relatively fast 120Hz VRR hardware. For laptops however, hardware support is still terrible or nonexistent. If you have a modern wifi 6/6E chipset, a fingerprint sensor, or a webcam that uses the chipset ISP, there's a very good chance it's unusable. Battery life is still a decade behind state of the art.
- Kwpolska 4y ago
  My Dell laptop’s got a WiFi 6 card and a fingerprint sensor. The WiFi card works (although I don’t have a WiFi 6 network). The fingerprint lets me register fingerprints, but I can’t log in with it, which is probably another case of crappy software.