5 ms·

It wasnt ego. There wasn’t ready supply of 3 billion doses of mRNA vaccines (its more than one dose)

refurb 4y ago
Doubtful. Pfizer manufacturer 4B and Moderna almost the same. Plus Fosun-BioNTech partnership allowed manufacturing in Hong Kong. There was certainly capacity to produce enough or at least enough for a large percentage of the Chinese population. China just decided they weren't going to use it. It literally wasn't allowed. If China had used a mix of mRNA and other vaccines I might see the argument they had a lack of supply.
- kilgnad 4y ago
  The US didn't allow the Chinese vaccine to be used either. It's Also because of ego across the board. It still isn't allowed in the US. There were definitely supply problems in the US in the beginning.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Did China submit their vaccine to the FDA? Not as far as I’m aware. And before China opened up millions of doses were being destroyed by countries who bought too much. China absolutely could have gotten mRNA vaccines. Hell, Hong Kong had them. So like i said, they could have gotten access to some mRNA vaccines, they choose not to.
    - onethought 4y ago
      > China absolutely could have gotten mRNA vaccines. Hell, Hong Kong had them. Hong Kong has 7 million people… 7 million != 1.3 billion.
      - refurb 4y ago
        Are you saying Hong Kong can't produce more vaccine than its own population? I mean, the US produced enough for 20x it's population.
        onethought 4y ago
        I’m saying no one could produce enough supply for the whole world plus China. That capability is only just coming online nowish. And yes HK couldn’t produce or purchase the billions of doses required to vaccinate the mainland. I’m saying that too
        refurb 4y ago
        They dont need to produce enough for all of China. They could have imported 100M and used that. They didnt.
        onethought 4y ago
        It would have been pointless. 10% vaccinated would not have had a big enough impact rate of hospitalisation. I think you don’t really understand the problem.
        hnfong 4y ago
        Hong Kong imported the vaccines. The city was international enough that using a foreign (non-Chinese) vaccine wasn't a political statement that the Chinese vaccine wasn't as effective. The political calculus is different for China generally.
        refurb 4y ago
        The plan was to manufacturer the vaccine in Asia for the Chinese market. I agree that the politically, China didn't want to use Western vaccines. BioNTech and Fosun Pharma are setting up a 50-50 joint venture to make and sell the COVID mRNA shot in China, with manufacturing capacity to produce up to 1 billion doses a year, Fosun said in a filing (PDF) to the Hong Kong Exchange on Sunday. https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-fosun-pharma-eye-1b-doses-covid-19-vaccine-capacity-new-china-jv https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-fosun-ph...
    - kilgnad 4y ago
      The FDA would be asking for submission if that vaccine was from Europe. There was a huge supply side problem in the US in the initial stages of the pandemic and any additional vaccines could have alleviated this issue.
      - refurb 4y ago
        The FDA doesn't "ask" for submission. The manufacturer initiates the review.
        kilgnad 4y ago
        Don't be so pedantic. When people are dying and supply is low, "asking" for it is a valid move whether by the FDA or the president. The fact that it wasn't done is deliberate from both sides.
        refurb 4y ago
        That's not how it works. I should know - I've submitted things to the FDA. If the Chinese vaccine manufacturers wanted an FDA review, they can pay a fee and get it.
        kilgnad 4y ago
        It's not about the technicalities of submission. It's about whether or not there was political desire to "bend the knee" and ask for a vaccine. The answer is obviously no. Neither side will do it.
- onethought 4y ago
  So do the math: 1.3 billion x 3/4/5 doses… It was never a viable choice. They also had a low trust society in western medicine, there never got effective uptake of any of the vaccines. It meant they didn’t have the options that countries like Taiwan and Australia had, where high vaccine uptake allowed lockdowns to be loosened.

Doubtful. Pfizer manufacturer 4B and Moderna almost the same. Plus Fosun-BioNTech partnership allowed manufacturing in Hong Kong. There was certainly capacity to produce enough or at least enough for a large percentage of the Chinese population. China just decided they weren't going to use it. It literally wasn't allowed. If China had used a mix of mRNA and other vaccines I might see the argument they had a lack of supply.

kilgnad 4y ago
The US didn't allow the Chinese vaccine to be used either. It's Also because of ego across the board. It still isn't allowed in the US. There were definitely supply problems in the US in the beginning.
- refurb 4y ago
  Did China submit their vaccine to the FDA? Not as far as I’m aware. And before China opened up millions of doses were being destroyed by countries who bought too much. China absolutely could have gotten mRNA vaccines. Hell, Hong Kong had them. So like i said, they could have gotten access to some mRNA vaccines, they choose not to.
  - onethought 4y ago
    > China absolutely could have gotten mRNA vaccines. Hell, Hong Kong had them. Hong Kong has 7 million people… 7 million != 1.3 billion.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Are you saying Hong Kong can't produce more vaccine than its own population? I mean, the US produced enough for 20x it's population.
      - onethought 4y ago
        I’m saying no one could produce enough supply for the whole world plus China. That capability is only just coming online nowish. And yes HK couldn’t produce or purchase the billions of doses required to vaccinate the mainland. I’m saying that too
        refurb 4y ago
        They dont need to produce enough for all of China. They could have imported 100M and used that. They didnt.
        onethought 4y ago
        It would have been pointless. 10% vaccinated would not have had a big enough impact rate of hospitalisation. I think you don’t really understand the problem.
      - hnfong 4y ago
        Hong Kong imported the vaccines. The city was international enough that using a foreign (non-Chinese) vaccine wasn't a political statement that the Chinese vaccine wasn't as effective. The political calculus is different for China generally.
        refurb 4y ago
        The plan was to manufacturer the vaccine in Asia for the Chinese market. I agree that the politically, China didn't want to use Western vaccines. BioNTech and Fosun Pharma are setting up a 50-50 joint venture to make and sell the COVID mRNA shot in China, with manufacturing capacity to produce up to 1 billion doses a year, Fosun said in a filing (PDF) to the Hong Kong Exchange on Sunday. https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-fosun-pharma-eye-1b-doses-covid-19-vaccine-capacity-new-china-jv https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-fosun-ph...
  - kilgnad 4y ago
    The FDA would be asking for submission if that vaccine was from Europe. There was a huge supply side problem in the US in the initial stages of the pandemic and any additional vaccines could have alleviated this issue.
    - refurb 4y ago
      The FDA doesn't "ask" for submission. The manufacturer initiates the review.
      - kilgnad 4y ago
        Don't be so pedantic. When people are dying and supply is low, "asking" for it is a valid move whether by the FDA or the president. The fact that it wasn't done is deliberate from both sides.
        refurb 4y ago
        That's not how it works. I should know - I've submitted things to the FDA. If the Chinese vaccine manufacturers wanted an FDA review, they can pay a fee and get it.
        kilgnad 4y ago
        It's not about the technicalities of submission. It's about whether or not there was political desire to "bend the knee" and ask for a vaccine. The answer is obviously no. Neither side will do it.
onethought 4y ago
So do the math: 1.3 billion x 3/4/5 doses… It was never a viable choice. They also had a low trust society in western medicine, there never got effective uptake of any of the vaccines. It meant they didn’t have the options that countries like Taiwan and Australia had, where high vaccine uptake allowed lockdowns to be loosened.