8 ms·

'Project Fear’ authors discussed when to ‘deploy’ new Covid variant

ratg13 4y ago
Very curious how Matt Hancock’s messages got leaked .. pegasus maybe?
- tene80i 4y ago
  He gave them to a journalist who was writing his book. She later gave them to the press.
  - worksonmine 4y ago
    Speechless, this guy teaches me the meaning of Hanlon's Razor. Can't help getting pissed off though, kind of like being mad at that annoying bee, only this bee has actual power which makes it scary.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      This guy seems to the the Fredo Corleone of tyrants. “I’m smart…not like everyone says…like dumb.”
resource0x 4y ago
Another article (not paywalled?) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/02/isabel-oakeshott-matt-hancock-im-a-celebrity-whatsapp-leak https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/02/isabel-oake... quote: She added: “Anyone who thinks I did this for money must be utterly insane. This is about the millions of people – every one of us in this country – that were adversely affected by the catastrophic decisions to lock down repeatedly, often on the flimsiest of evidence, for political reasons.” end quote Strange. Why did it take her so long?
- nhchris 4y ago
  > Oakeshott said she chose the newspaper for ideological reasons, because it “pushed back against lockdown during the pandemic”. She made the right choice, as much as The Guardian might dislike it. They seem more interested in reporting on the background bickering, rather than on the leaks themselves. A common tactic when one wants to obfuscate a story. And when they do report on the leaks, they use the most discreet of headlines: Matt Hancock: what do the leaked WhatsApp messages reveal? Texts sent at height of pandemic suggest former health secretary rejected advice on testing in care homes - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/01/matt-hancock-what-do-leaked-whatsapp-messages-reveal-covid https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/01/matt-hancoc...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Interesting how as more and more information is leaked out about what really happened during the pandemic, the thousands of commenters who were enthusiastically complicit in enabling the gross abuses that happened have become very very quiet. Wonder how many who were pushing for the non-compliant to be imprisoned, or worse, remember the part they gleefully took in all of it. Be prepared for "It's time for us to move on" to become the new blessed narrative all must follow in order to be a good citizen.
- version_five 4y ago
  There are still a lot of true believers that jump in to these covid discussions (even if it's just to mod down stuff that doesn't support their hysteria). I'm surprised there aren't any smug dismissals posted in this thread yet. Sadly these kind of stories rarely change minds. Once people have dug in, they only get emboldened by any contradictory evidence. Governments spent two+ years radicalizing people, then the messaging just sort of faded away. There should have been loud and unequivocal "ok this is over" but instead nothing because it's politically convenient Edit: smug dismissal now the top comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026368
- dudul 4y ago
  A few weeks ago I ran into an article making a case for a "covid amnesty". Essentially, all the doomsayers who pushed for schools to be closed, for people to be vaccinated or lose their job, etc should just be forgiven because "they didn't know, there wasn't enough data" Kids were badly hurt. People couldn't hold their parents hand as they were dying (not necessarily of covid). Hell, they could barely organize funerals.
- worksonmine 4y ago
  And now it's flagged for whatever reason. There's usually lots of great in-depth discussion here on HN and the reason I come here but the pandemic was an exception. Was very disappointing to see at the time.
mbgerring 4y ago
The further we get away from the pandemic, the less anyone will remember that it suddenly became the leading cause of death, or one of the leading causes of death, in many countries. “Scandals” like this one will seem more significant than the fact that policymakers were acting on the imperative to keep even more people from dying. Confronted with the same circumstances and choices, I don’t think any armchair critic would have done any better. The per capita rate of sickness and death in U.S. states whose leaders boasted the loudest about having few or no restrictions whatsoever suggests that many, many more people would be dead if we had taken their advice. But the further we get away from the emergency period, the less any of this will matter. We won’t learn anything.
- nhchris 4y ago
  The scandal is not about whether the pandemic response was correct given the information they had, but their efforts to manipulate public perception.
  - eastern 4y ago
    Most of all, it's about the attitude that the tone of the conversation reveals. Also, the behaviour of this very lot at the time, as was revealed later. They're mocking people, enjoying the absolute power that they have gained.
    - mbgerring 4y ago
      So I guess “absolute power” is when your temporary state of emergency, approved through the regular legislative process by duly elected officials, is allowed to expire, and the restrictions imposed by it are rolled back.
- thunky 4y ago
  > Confronted with the same circumstances and choices, I don’t think any armchair critic would have done any better Maybe not, but that doesn't make it out of bounds to be critical. > The per capita rate of sickness and death in U.S. states whose leaders boasted the loudest about having few or no restrictions I'm not sure it's so simple. NY stats are very close to FL. > We won’t learn anything. Exactly.
fwlr 4y ago
I stayed out most discussions about Covid at the time, but I do vividly recall there was a short period where I found it darkly amusing to say stuff like “deploy the Omegacron variant” in response to people expressing optimism about lockdowns ending soon. It was a short-lived period because I got lambasted over it. While I was just using it to make sarcastic jokes, apparently some politicians were really using it to make sincere policy? Hell of a punchline.

Very curious how Matt Hancock’s messages got leaked .. pegasus maybe?

tene80i 4y ago
He gave them to a journalist who was writing his book. She later gave them to the press.
- worksonmine 4y ago
  Speechless, this guy teaches me the meaning of Hanlon's Razor. Can't help getting pissed off though, kind of like being mad at that annoying bee, only this bee has actual power which makes it scary.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    This guy seems to the the Fredo Corleone of tyrants. “I’m smart…not like everyone says…like dumb.”

Another article (not paywalled?) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/02/isabel-oakeshott-matt-hancock-im-a-celebrity-whatsapp-leak https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/02/isabel-oake... quote: She added: “Anyone who thinks I did this for money must be utterly insane. This is about the millions of people – every one of us in this country – that were adversely affected by the catastrophic decisions to lock down repeatedly, often on the flimsiest of evidence, for political reasons.” end quote Strange. Why did it take her so long?

nhchris 4y ago
> Oakeshott said she chose the newspaper for ideological reasons, because it “pushed back against lockdown during the pandemic”. She made the right choice, as much as The Guardian might dislike it. They seem more interested in reporting on the background bickering, rather than on the leaks themselves. A common tactic when one wants to obfuscate a story. And when they do report on the leaks, they use the most discreet of headlines: Matt Hancock: what do the leaked WhatsApp messages reveal? Texts sent at height of pandemic suggest former health secretary rejected advice on testing in care homes - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/01/matt-hancock-what-do-leaked-whatsapp-messages-reveal-covid https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/01/matt-hancoc...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

Interesting how as more and more information is leaked out about what really happened during the pandemic, the thousands of commenters who were enthusiastically complicit in enabling the gross abuses that happened have become very very quiet. Wonder how many who were pushing for the non-compliant to be imprisoned, or worse, remember the part they gleefully took in all of it. Be prepared for "It's time for us to move on" to become the new blessed narrative all must follow in order to be a good citizen.

version_five 4y ago
There are still a lot of true believers that jump in to these covid discussions (even if it's just to mod down stuff that doesn't support their hysteria). I'm surprised there aren't any smug dismissals posted in this thread yet. Sadly these kind of stories rarely change minds. Once people have dug in, they only get emboldened by any contradictory evidence. Governments spent two+ years radicalizing people, then the messaging just sort of faded away. There should have been loud and unequivocal "ok this is over" but instead nothing because it's politically convenient Edit: smug dismissal now the top comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026368
dudul 4y ago
A few weeks ago I ran into an article making a case for a "covid amnesty". Essentially, all the doomsayers who pushed for schools to be closed, for people to be vaccinated or lose their job, etc should just be forgiven because "they didn't know, there wasn't enough data" Kids were badly hurt. People couldn't hold their parents hand as they were dying (not necessarily of covid). Hell, they could barely organize funerals.
worksonmine 4y ago
And now it's flagged for whatever reason. There's usually lots of great in-depth discussion here on HN and the reason I come here but the pandemic was an exception. Was very disappointing to see at the time.

mbgerring 4y ago

The further we get away from the pandemic, the less anyone will remember that it suddenly became the leading cause of death, or one of the leading causes of death, in many countries. “Scandals” like this one will seem more significant than the fact that policymakers were acting on the imperative to keep even more people from dying. Confronted with the same circumstances and choices, I don’t think any armchair critic would have done any better. The per capita rate of sickness and death in U.S. states whose leaders boasted the loudest about having few or no restrictions whatsoever suggests that many, many more people would be dead if we had taken their advice. But the further we get away from the emergency period, the less any of this will matter. We won’t learn anything.

nhchris 4y ago
The scandal is not about whether the pandemic response was correct given the information they had, but their efforts to manipulate public perception.
- eastern 4y ago
  Most of all, it's about the attitude that the tone of the conversation reveals. Also, the behaviour of this very lot at the time, as was revealed later. They're mocking people, enjoying the absolute power that they have gained.
  - mbgerring 4y ago
    So I guess “absolute power” is when your temporary state of emergency, approved through the regular legislative process by duly elected officials, is allowed to expire, and the restrictions imposed by it are rolled back.
thunky 4y ago
> Confronted with the same circumstances and choices, I don’t think any armchair critic would have done any better Maybe not, but that doesn't make it out of bounds to be critical. > The per capita rate of sickness and death in U.S. states whose leaders boasted the loudest about having few or no restrictions I'm not sure it's so simple. NY stats are very close to FL. > We won’t learn anything. Exactly.

fwlr 4y ago

I stayed out most discussions about Covid at the time, but I do vividly recall there was a short period where I found it darkly amusing to say stuff like “deploy the Omegacron variant” in response to people expressing optimism about lockdowns ending soon. It was a short-lived period because I got lambasted over it. While I was just using it to make sarcastic jokes, apparently some politicians were really using it to make sincere policy? Hell of a punchline.