7 ms·

I got my first and so far only (fingers crossed!) kidney stone five years ago. At that time I started drinking lemon juice with hot water to start each day bef

by nrau 4y ago

I got my first and so far only (fingers crossed!) kidney stone five years ago. At that time I started drinking lemon juice with hot water to start each day before consuming anything else, and it has so far kept any recurrence of kidney stones away. I really do believe the lemon juice has been key for me in this regard, and it is in any case a very healthy thing to do daily anyways (known and practiced by other cultures around the world). Most folks who have kidney stones get them again and again, and anything that can help prevent this very painful event is critical. For anyone who does unfortunately experience kidney stones I highly recommend you try this option.

mrtweetyhack 4y ago
[dead]
zadler 4y ago
Did you have the kidney stones removed the first time round?
- nrau 4y ago
  Fortunately I passed the stone in about 5 days. That's the best possible outcome as painful as that can be. I started the lemon juice about 3 days into the event and I do think it helped already in making the stone a bit smaller and getting it out of my body.
- jv22222 4y ago
  I opted for surgery on my 2nd stone and it was a terrible mistake IMHO I should have tried to let it pass. The first was painful but not THAT bad. Worst experience I've ever had. Now when I get a tinge of pain I immediately take Chanca Piedra and it seems to have helped for past few years, no reoccurrence, but could just be anecdotal & conicendental.
  - throwanem 4y ago
    What procedure, and what was a mistake about it? I've had to have a 5mm stone removed endoscopically, and that didn't seem to do me any harm, although I was anesthetized for the procedure - if that's the difference, then say no more, as I'm sure it would have been fairly agonizing if I'd been aware of what was going on at the time.
    - jv22222 4y ago
      FYI I replied about the particulars of the surgery here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 . I post this because I don't think you would get notified otherwise. It was super painful!
  - pmarreck 4y ago
    > Worst experience I've ever had. wait... did you... have a surgery without anesthesia or something??
    - jonhohle 4y ago
      They consider it a surgery, but it’s not unlike a colonoscopy where there is no investing, just instruments entering orifices. I’ve had two ureteroscopies while awake without any kind of anesthetic. It’s likely the worst experience I’ve had another human inflict on me. You’re in a very vulnerable position, it’s very painful, and it induces the sensation of urinating uncontrollably. After my first, the doc decided he might as well do a prostate exam as well. I went in not knowing either was going to happen. I was shaken for about a week afterwards.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - jonhohle 4y ago
        s/investing/incision Autocorrect!
      - pmarreck 4y ago
        > two ureteroscopies while awake without any kind of anesthetic. It’s likely the worst experience I’ve had another human inflict on me well, that makes me feel good, because there were trace amounts of urine in my blood not long ago and they wanted to do one of those to me, but instead I got a second opinion and test done and the trace blood had disappeared, so hopefully I dodged that bullet. it sounds terrifying
      - jv22222 4y ago
        FYI I replied about the particulars of the surgery here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 . I post this because I don't think you would get notified otherwise. It was nothing like a colonoscopy!
    - jv22222 4y ago
  - kevinak 4y ago
    Is blowing them up using ultrasound not an option where you’re from? Surgery sounds horrible. Would have probably also opted for passing the stones if that was an alternative… Also the procedure is pretty sci-fi - https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...
    - sleepybrett 4y ago
      I asked about this after I passed my first stone (went to my gp, they gave me flomax and a painkiller, the later of which I really only used to help me sleep, I didn't find the stone particularly 'painful' just very uncomfortable). My urologist said they really only use ultrasound for stones they consider large.
      - kevinak 4y ago
        TIL - I must’ve had huge ones then . Maybe smaller stones don’t show up on the scans and there’s a much larger risk of collateral damage. Kidney stones are the worst things I’ve ever experienced in my life. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Ugh.
Sindisil 4y ago
Increasing citric acid intake does seem to be helpful, at least for calcium oxalate stones (one of the more command kinds). I've had more than a few stones over the past couple decades, and when I finally got myself in to see a urologist, that was one of her primary recommendations. That, along with some other treatment, seems to have helped considerably (only one non-trivial stone in the last ~12mo & the few others were barely noticeable).
moffkalast 4y ago
Why hot water specifically? That sounds like the worst kind of lemonade.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  It's actually very nice and refreshing. I've done this too at times for unrelated reasons. It feels "healthy".
- nicoburns 4y ago
  Think of it like a lemon tea. You can in fact get lemon flavoured tea (e.g. lemon and ginger).
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  In my experience, it isn't perceived as bitter/sour as it feels in cold water.
throwanem 4y ago
I'm tempted to start taking a tablespoon or two of lemon juice in my morning orange juice - should be pleasant enough, as I like tart flavors anyway.
- throwanem 4y ago
  ...maybe not that tart, though. In fairness, I keep the stuff around mainly for cocktails, but if Kingsley Amis is any example, having one of those every morning will certainly cause me many more problems than it's at all likely to solve.
mrexroad 4y ago
Hmm, I’ll go ahead and assume that consuming the lemon juice in a cocktail (e.g. a Sidecar) negates the benefits.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pmarreck 4y ago
Do you think squeezing some lemon juice into, say, a morning tea, like maybe a Yerba Mate, would cover the requirement here?
- Izikiel43 4y ago
  Drink terere instead
kerpotgh 4y ago
[dead]
sleepybrett 4y ago
I've had a couple over the last few years. I've also started throwing lemon juice in my water bottle whenever I refill it. My urologist also suggested apple cider vinegar, I try to take a bit of that every day too (usually hot). It can help dissolve stones. I personally don't find them particularly 'painful' more like profoundly uncomfortable. I find that I constantly am in a cycle of sitting for a few minutes then pacing around then maybe try and lay down, rinse repeat. A little heating pad time on my kidneys seems to make it less of a problem.
- kevinak 4y ago
  I’d say in your case your stones probably haven’t been that big. My stones were the worst experience of my life - only IV morphine helped. And even that made the pain just tolerable. Horrible! I do identify with the constant uncomfortableness though.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    I think when they saw them on the scan (they were very obvious) they said they were around 4-5mm.. I assume thats on the smallish side?
  - bmitc 4y ago
    I don't think size has much to do with it, or at least there is no deterministic correlation to pain. Mine, just removed, was only 3-4mm, but it caused immense pain. The pain was 11/10, such that I cried and vomited from the pain, and the pain pushed through toradol, hydrocodone, and oxycodone. The second hydrocodone IV juice I got was described as 10x more potent than morphine. On my second ER visit in just two days, I had to have a stent installed until the stone could be removed because my kidney was doing poorly. The stone still hadn't passed after a month. The shape of the stone and size of the ureter have an effect as well. I think the main thing on pain is: is the stone blocking urine. If yes, then you will experience pain that you didn't think existed. And if things stay that way, you risk kidney failure, infection, and/or sepsis. The insane-o pain comes not from the stone itself but from the stone causing urine to backup which causes the kidney to expand in its casing. I had more discomfort from the stent than I did pain from the stone while I had both, but the stent kept the insane-o pain and my kidney from failing since it kept urine flowing. I literally cannot describe the pain I had when the stone first entered my ureter. It was existential pain, my back and abdomen muscles locked up and felt like they were dying and turning into stone, and the nausea was unbearable. The best analogy I can come up with is that it felt like someone was taking a screwdriver and stabbing me in the side all the way to my spine without it piercing, and then some, all the while having the worst stomach ache, immense pressure to void, etc. And I don't think that even gets to it.
defen 4y ago
How much lemon juice? Like the juice of one whole lemon, or what?
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  Doesn't matter. Don't do this. Take citrate as a supplement.
1letterunixname 4y ago
You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Hot water has nothing to do with it. Timing has nothing to do with it. Citrate and water increase; oxalate, protein, and cola decrease are generally important. Also, being endocrinologically stable is important. See a urologist because they form silently again and again. Unless you have x-ray vision, it's impossible to know their status.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  >You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Honestly, this gets repeated a lot, but I've yet to see literature that shows this is true. It is true that you can show erosion under ridiculous conditions that don't mirror the real world like immersing loose teeth in acidic beverages for days. But I've yet to find evidence that drinking unsweetened acidic beverages like carbonated water or water with a little lemon juice has any meaningful impact on tooth decay. Over and over again the actual epidemiology shows an association between sugar / processed carbohydrates and tooth decay.

by nrau 4y ago

mrtweetyhack 4y ago

[dead]

zadler 4y ago

Did you have the kidney stones removed the first time round?

nrau 4y ago
Fortunately I passed the stone in about 5 days. That's the best possible outcome as painful as that can be. I started the lemon juice about 3 days into the event and I do think it helped already in making the stone a bit smaller and getting it out of my body.
jv22222 4y ago
I opted for surgery on my 2nd stone and it was a terrible mistake IMHO I should have tried to let it pass. The first was painful but not THAT bad. Worst experience I've ever had. Now when I get a tinge of pain I immediately take Chanca Piedra and it seems to have helped for past few years, no reoccurrence, but could just be anecdotal & conicendental.
- throwanem 4y ago
  What procedure, and what was a mistake about it? I've had to have a 5mm stone removed endoscopically, and that didn't seem to do me any harm, although I was anesthetized for the procedure - if that's the difference, then say no more, as I'm sure it would have been fairly agonizing if I'd been aware of what was going on at the time.
  - jv22222 4y ago
    FYI I replied about the particulars of the surgery here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 . I post this because I don't think you would get notified otherwise. It was super painful!
- pmarreck 4y ago
  > Worst experience I've ever had. wait... did you... have a surgery without anesthesia or something??
  - jonhohle 4y ago
    They consider it a surgery, but it’s not unlike a colonoscopy where there is no investing, just instruments entering orifices. I’ve had two ureteroscopies while awake without any kind of anesthetic. It’s likely the worst experience I’ve had another human inflict on me. You’re in a very vulnerable position, it’s very painful, and it induces the sensation of urinating uncontrollably. After my first, the doc decided he might as well do a prostate exam as well. I went in not knowing either was going to happen. I was shaken for about a week afterwards.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jonhohle 4y ago
      s/investing/incision Autocorrect!
    - pmarreck 4y ago
      > two ureteroscopies while awake without any kind of anesthetic. It’s likely the worst experience I’ve had another human inflict on me well, that makes me feel good, because there were trace amounts of urine in my blood not long ago and they wanted to do one of those to me, but instead I got a second opinion and test done and the trace blood had disappeared, so hopefully I dodged that bullet. it sounds terrifying
    - jv22222 4y ago
      FYI I replied about the particulars of the surgery here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35036735 . I post this because I don't think you would get notified otherwise. It was nothing like a colonoscopy!
  - jv22222 4y ago
- kevinak 4y ago
  Is blowing them up using ultrasound not an option where you’re from? Surgery sounds horrible. Would have probably also opted for passing the stones if that was an alternative… Also the procedure is pretty sci-fi - https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    I asked about this after I passed my first stone (went to my gp, they gave me flomax and a painkiller, the later of which I really only used to help me sleep, I didn't find the stone particularly 'painful' just very uncomfortable). My urologist said they really only use ultrasound for stones they consider large.
    - kevinak 4y ago
      TIL - I must’ve had huge ones then . Maybe smaller stones don’t show up on the scans and there’s a much larger risk of collateral damage. Kidney stones are the worst things I’ve ever experienced in my life. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Ugh.

Sindisil 4y ago

Increasing citric acid intake does seem to be helpful, at least for calcium oxalate stones (one of the more command kinds). I've had more than a few stones over the past couple decades, and when I finally got myself in to see a urologist, that was one of her primary recommendations. That, along with some other treatment, seems to have helped considerably (only one non-trivial stone in the last ~12mo & the few others were barely noticeable).

moffkalast 4y ago

Why hot water specifically? That sounds like the worst kind of lemonade.

nerdponx 4y ago
It's actually very nice and refreshing. I've done this too at times for unrelated reasons. It feels "healthy".
nicoburns 4y ago
Think of it like a lemon tea. You can in fact get lemon flavoured tea (e.g. lemon and ginger).
heavyset_go 4y ago
In my experience, it isn't perceived as bitter/sour as it feels in cold water.

throwanem 4y ago

I'm tempted to start taking a tablespoon or two of lemon juice in my morning orange juice - should be pleasant enough, as I like tart flavors anyway.

throwanem 4y ago
...maybe not that tart, though. In fairness, I keep the stuff around mainly for cocktails, but if Kingsley Amis is any example, having one of those every morning will certainly cause me many more problems than it's at all likely to solve.

mrexroad 4y ago

Hmm, I’ll go ahead and assume that consuming the lemon juice in a cocktail (e.g. a Sidecar) negates the benefits.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

pmarreck 4y ago

Do you think squeezing some lemon juice into, say, a morning tea, like maybe a Yerba Mate, would cover the requirement here?

Izikiel43 4y ago
Drink terere instead

kerpotgh 4y ago

[dead]

sleepybrett 4y ago

I've had a couple over the last few years. I've also started throwing lemon juice in my water bottle whenever I refill it. My urologist also suggested apple cider vinegar, I try to take a bit of that every day too (usually hot). It can help dissolve stones. I personally don't find them particularly 'painful' more like profoundly uncomfortable. I find that I constantly am in a cycle of sitting for a few minutes then pacing around then maybe try and lay down, rinse repeat. A little heating pad time on my kidneys seems to make it less of a problem.

kevinak 4y ago
I’d say in your case your stones probably haven’t been that big. My stones were the worst experience of my life - only IV morphine helped. And even that made the pain just tolerable. Horrible! I do identify with the constant uncomfortableness though.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  I think when they saw them on the scan (they were very obvious) they said they were around 4-5mm.. I assume thats on the smallish side?
- bmitc 4y ago
  I don't think size has much to do with it, or at least there is no deterministic correlation to pain. Mine, just removed, was only 3-4mm, but it caused immense pain. The pain was 11/10, such that I cried and vomited from the pain, and the pain pushed through toradol, hydrocodone, and oxycodone. The second hydrocodone IV juice I got was described as 10x more potent than morphine. On my second ER visit in just two days, I had to have a stent installed until the stone could be removed because my kidney was doing poorly. The stone still hadn't passed after a month. The shape of the stone and size of the ureter have an effect as well. I think the main thing on pain is: is the stone blocking urine. If yes, then you will experience pain that you didn't think existed. And if things stay that way, you risk kidney failure, infection, and/or sepsis. The insane-o pain comes not from the stone itself but from the stone causing urine to backup which causes the kidney to expand in its casing. I had more discomfort from the stent than I did pain from the stone while I had both, but the stent kept the insane-o pain and my kidney from failing since it kept urine flowing. I literally cannot describe the pain I had when the stone first entered my ureter. It was existential pain, my back and abdomen muscles locked up and felt like they were dying and turning into stone, and the nausea was unbearable. The best analogy I can come up with is that it felt like someone was taking a screwdriver and stabbing me in the side all the way to my spine without it piercing, and then some, all the while having the worst stomach ache, immense pressure to void, etc. And I don't think that even gets to it.

defen 4y ago

How much lemon juice? Like the juice of one whole lemon, or what?

1letterunixname 4y ago
Doesn't matter. Don't do this. Take citrate as a supplement.

1letterunixname 4y ago

You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Hot water has nothing to do with it. Timing has nothing to do with it. Citrate and water increase; oxalate, protein, and cola decrease are generally important. Also, being endocrinologically stable is important. See a urologist because they form silently again and again. Unless you have x-ray vision, it's impossible to know their status.

Enginerrrd 4y ago
>You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Honestly, this gets repeated a lot, but I've yet to see literature that shows this is true. It is true that you can show erosion under ridiculous conditions that don't mirror the real world like immersing loose teeth in acidic beverages for days. But I've yet to find evidence that drinking unsweetened acidic beverages like carbonated water or water with a little lemon juice has any meaningful impact on tooth decay. Over and over again the actual epidemiology shows an association between sugar / processed carbohydrates and tooth decay.