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You seem to be making an argument that law enforcement should do anything to keep order, no matter the legality. I would argue that as soon as a “good guy” cut

You seem to be making an argument that law enforcement should do anything to keep order, no matter the legality. I would argue that as soon as a “good guy” cuts legal corners, they set a bad example for those next to them. Those little corruptions have outsized consequences over time, like compound interest. I was in Los Angeles when LAPD brass were trying to figure out what to do after the Rampart District had been revealed for a perfect example of this corruption.

BurningFrog 4y ago
I'm not at all making that argument. I share your ideals and agree with what you're saying. But I also know the world doesn't 100% work that way, and am open to the idea that this is because it can't. Maybe you and I actually can't "handle the truth", as the Nicholson line goes, so some essential things to preserve our civilized polite life has to be done is secret for the bigger good. I don't claim it is that way, only that I can't be sure it isn't. And neither can you.
- thephyber 4y ago
  > Maybe you and I actually can't "handle the truth", as the Nicholson line goes This comment is entirely about the examples/analogies. Note that different people interpret that character’s line differently. Some people agree with the character that strict rules and discipline and walls and tough characters are needed to maintain the peace (“the sheepdog protects the sheep against the wolves” analogy that is common in police/military circles). I personally see that character as having a god complex. In the movie, he walked around with an entourage of sycophants and enablers, he lied to investigators, he created a crime by telling subordinates to “handle” the whistleblower, he arranged for the crime to be covered up by altering logs at the airport, and he chose to withhold his actions from the military court until his ego was challenged. Every time that “you can’t handle the truth” scene is invoked around policing, it is the perfect example to confirm my bias against people who would choose to give sheepdogs all of the power they demand. And the analogy of sheep/sheepdog is an interesting tell because sheep are very far removed species from sheepdogs, but sheepdogs and wolves are the same family if not the same species. The only thing that differentiates a sheepdog from a wolf is action. If the sheepdog starts to selectively act like a wolf “to keep order”, then they are closer to a wolf than a sheepdog.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    I mostly agree about the movie, though I'm impressed by how it makes us see how he honestly thinks of himself as the hero who does What Needs To Be Done in secret. In the real world, I think more about the CIA and it's sister organizations across the world, who routinely and lawlessly assassinate people and many other deeply illegal things. I wish the world wasn't like that. But it is.

BurningFrog 4y ago

I'm not at all making that argument. I share your ideals and agree with what you're saying. But I also know the world doesn't 100% work that way, and am open to the idea that this is because it can't. Maybe you and I actually can't "handle the truth", as the Nicholson line goes, so some essential things to preserve our civilized polite life has to be done is secret for the bigger good. I don't claim it is that way, only that I can't be sure it isn't. And neither can you.

thephyber 4y ago
> Maybe you and I actually can't "handle the truth", as the Nicholson line goes This comment is entirely about the examples/analogies. Note that different people interpret that character’s line differently. Some people agree with the character that strict rules and discipline and walls and tough characters are needed to maintain the peace (“the sheepdog protects the sheep against the wolves” analogy that is common in police/military circles). I personally see that character as having a god complex. In the movie, he walked around with an entourage of sycophants and enablers, he lied to investigators, he created a crime by telling subordinates to “handle” the whistleblower, he arranged for the crime to be covered up by altering logs at the airport, and he chose to withhold his actions from the military court until his ego was challenged. Every time that “you can’t handle the truth” scene is invoked around policing, it is the perfect example to confirm my bias against people who would choose to give sheepdogs all of the power they demand. And the analogy of sheep/sheepdog is an interesting tell because sheep are very far removed species from sheepdogs, but sheepdogs and wolves are the same family if not the same species. The only thing that differentiates a sheepdog from a wolf is action. If the sheepdog starts to selectively act like a wolf “to keep order”, then they are closer to a wolf than a sheepdog.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  I mostly agree about the movie, though I'm impressed by how it makes us see how he honestly thinks of himself as the hero who does What Needs To Be Done in secret. In the real world, I think more about the CIA and it's sister organizations across the world, who routinely and lawlessly assassinate people and many other deeply illegal things. I wish the world wasn't like that. But it is.