4 ms·

I was assuming you were arguing for something like the copenhagen interpretation. It now sounds like you're not, but I don't understand what interpretation you'

by mort96 4y ago

I was assuming you were arguing for something like the copenhagen interpretation. It now sounds like you're not, but I don't understand what interpretation you're referring to where the wave function takes the shape of another wave function. Do you mean that there is one universal wave function, but the "collapse" is one where the universal wave function discontinuously changes to reflect a probability distribution where (say) a particle's position has much less uncertainty? What is this interpretation called? Anyways, that's still an additional mechanism. > MWI still has wave function collapse, the "we observe random part of the universe" part is the wave function collapse, that remains unexplained, why do we only see a random subset? You can't explain that. That's not wave function collapse. The wave function just keeps evolving as normal. I don't know enough about this to explain how the MWI maps on to our subjective experiences, I could probably find some links but I'm sure you're as good at that as I am. I'm not arguing that MWI is a better interpretation here, just that it has fewer mechanisms.

Jensson 4y ago
> I was assuming you were arguing for something like the copenhagen interpretation. It sounds like you're not, but I don't understand what interpretation you're referring to where the wave function takes the shape of another wave function. Do you mean that there is one universal wave function, but the "collapse" is one where the universal wave function discontinuously changes to reflect a probability distribution where (say) a particle's position has much less uncertainty? What is this interpretation called? Wave function collapse is an observed phenomena, this has no interpretation at all, its just taking what we observe and say "this is what we observe". I'm not sure why you call out "wave function collapse" as something strange or alien to quantum mechanics, it is one of the core parts. In the basic quantum mechanic course every physics student takes nowhere do they say "quantum waves collapses to pointwise particle states", they say "quantum waves collapses to eigenstates of quantum waves". So, wave function collapse is just what we call the observed phenomena that when we measure a quantum wave it takes the shape of one of the eigenstates of the measurement. That is all it is, and that is true regardless if you have a MWI or a Copenhagen, or like me a "quantum waves behave weirdly during some interactions" interpretations of quantum mechanics. And I think my interpretation makes the least assumptions, we have quantum waves, and during some interactions they collapse to one of its eigenstates of that interaction. That is the purest form of quantum mechanics, no need to do more than that. Edit: And trying to argue about more interpretations than that is like trying to invent some divine interpretation of Newtons laws of motions etc. Those are just descriptions of how things behaves.
- mort96 4y ago
  Yes, the collapse of the wave function is ... when the wave function collapses from representing a superposition of multiple states to representing one state ("collapses to eigenstates of quantum waves"). It. Does. Not. Happen. With. MWI. The single universal wave function always just keeps evolving according to the normal rules.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    In MWI the event where we stop observing some of its state is the collapse, it didn't disappear, you just made it harder to understand. So MWI doesn't make things clearer, it hides the complexity of quantum mechanics, you might like it better when you no longer see the complexity, but to me I want it front and center so that I don't miss it. Edit: Or to make it clearer that it isn't magic, the event where some parts of the wave function suddenly stops interacting with the other parts of the wave function, that is a wave function collapse, and yes it does happen in MWI, you can't just change the laws of quantum mechanics so it has to work that way.
    - mort96 4y ago
      I did not say it made anything easier to understand. I did not say it made anything clearer. I did not say I like it better. Stop putting words into my mouth. I said it has fewer mechanism. Which it does. Because it does not have the wave function collapse mechanism.
      - Jensson 4y ago
        But the wave function collapse is there. Wave functions stops interacting with each other, that is a micro system phenomena, it requires nothing of our macro state magic, and we can observe it, it happens, and that is what we call "wave function collapse", and it happen in MWI.
        mort96 4y ago
        In MWI, there is one single wave function. It is the single wave function which describes the state of "the multiverse". It is always in a superposition of eigenstates. It never collapses. That's literally the entire point of the MWI. If you refuse to understand that, you have some reading to do. I don't believe further discussion is fruitful.

by mort96 4y ago

Jensson 4y ago

> I was assuming you were arguing for something like the copenhagen interpretation. It sounds like you're not, but I don't understand what interpretation you're referring to where the wave function takes the shape of another wave function. Do you mean that there is one universal wave function, but the "collapse" is one where the universal wave function discontinuously changes to reflect a probability distribution where (say) a particle's position has much less uncertainty? What is this interpretation called? Wave function collapse is an observed phenomena, this has no interpretation at all, its just taking what we observe and say "this is what we observe". I'm not sure why you call out "wave function collapse" as something strange or alien to quantum mechanics, it is one of the core parts. In the basic quantum mechanic course every physics student takes nowhere do they say "quantum waves collapses to pointwise particle states", they say "quantum waves collapses to eigenstates of quantum waves". So, wave function collapse is just what we call the observed phenomena that when we measure a quantum wave it takes the shape of one of the eigenstates of the measurement. That is all it is, and that is true regardless if you have a MWI or a Copenhagen, or like me a "quantum waves behave weirdly during some interactions" interpretations of quantum mechanics. And I think my interpretation makes the least assumptions, we have quantum waves, and during some interactions they collapse to one of its eigenstates of that interaction. That is the purest form of quantum mechanics, no need to do more than that. Edit: And trying to argue about more interpretations than that is like trying to invent some divine interpretation of Newtons laws of motions etc. Those are just descriptions of how things behaves.

mort96 4y ago
Yes, the collapse of the wave function is ... when the wave function collapses from representing a superposition of multiple states to representing one state ("collapses to eigenstates of quantum waves"). It. Does. Not. Happen. With. MWI. The single universal wave function always just keeps evolving according to the normal rules.
- Jensson 4y ago
  In MWI the event where we stop observing some of its state is the collapse, it didn't disappear, you just made it harder to understand. So MWI doesn't make things clearer, it hides the complexity of quantum mechanics, you might like it better when you no longer see the complexity, but to me I want it front and center so that I don't miss it. Edit: Or to make it clearer that it isn't magic, the event where some parts of the wave function suddenly stops interacting with the other parts of the wave function, that is a wave function collapse, and yes it does happen in MWI, you can't just change the laws of quantum mechanics so it has to work that way.
  - mort96 4y ago
    I did not say it made anything easier to understand. I did not say it made anything clearer. I did not say I like it better. Stop putting words into my mouth. I said it has fewer mechanism. Which it does. Because it does not have the wave function collapse mechanism.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      But the wave function collapse is there. Wave functions stops interacting with each other, that is a micro system phenomena, it requires nothing of our macro state magic, and we can observe it, it happens, and that is what we call "wave function collapse", and it happen in MWI.
      - mort96 4y ago
        In MWI, there is one single wave function. It is the single wave function which describes the state of "the multiverse". It is always in a superposition of eigenstates. It never collapses. That's literally the entire point of the MWI. If you refuse to understand that, you have some reading to do. I don't believe further discussion is fruitful.