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This article is about European goods being exported to Russia via proxies, Europe isn't part of the US.

by luckylion 4y ago

lern_too_spel 4y ago
And the article explains how the EU does the same thing.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Except they don't, which is the problem. They're leaving it to the member states, which vary greatly in enforcement, and so you can get around enforcement in one state by exporting to another state first (which is easy thanks to the low-friction shared market) before exporting to your target proxy country. There's a reason why trade with the Russian proxies has increased by pretty much the amount that direct trade with Russia has decreased: because the enforcement of the sanctions doesn't work correctly and Europe hasn't found a single voice on it, and additionally doesn't want to bring down the hammer on anyone in order to not offend them.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    Enforcement failure doesn't mean it isn't banned as you claimed earlier.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      That's not what I claimed. I asked why they hadn't included enforcement provisions because it's obvious that people will try to get around it and it's even obvious how they will get around it. Yet here we are, and I still don't know. You offered that the US does some enforcement. So why doesn't the EU? Surely we have the bureaucratic manpower.
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        > "What could they do to circumvent this?" - "Import it by proxy" - "okay, we should make sure that's banned" > Instead, it's "wow, who could've known?!" I don't know how to read this any other way. Enforcing sanctions properly is something the EU has struggled with (https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/strict-and-uniform-improving-eu-sanctions-enforcement https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/strict-and-uniform... gives an example of DPRK collecting hostel revenue in Berlin for years with no penalties ever administered), but that is different from saying that "import by proxy" is was unknown and not banned.

This article is about European goods being exported to Russia via proxies, Europe isn't part of the US.

lern_too_spel 4y ago

And the article explains how the EU does the same thing.

luckylion 4y ago
Except they don't, which is the problem. They're leaving it to the member states, which vary greatly in enforcement, and so you can get around enforcement in one state by exporting to another state first (which is easy thanks to the low-friction shared market) before exporting to your target proxy country. There's a reason why trade with the Russian proxies has increased by pretty much the amount that direct trade with Russia has decreased: because the enforcement of the sanctions doesn't work correctly and Europe hasn't found a single voice on it, and additionally doesn't want to bring down the hammer on anyone in order to not offend them.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  Enforcement failure doesn't mean it isn't banned as you claimed earlier.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    That's not what I claimed. I asked why they hadn't included enforcement provisions because it's obvious that people will try to get around it and it's even obvious how they will get around it. Yet here we are, and I still don't know. You offered that the US does some enforcement. So why doesn't the EU? Surely we have the bureaucratic manpower.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      > "What could they do to circumvent this?" - "Import it by proxy" - "okay, we should make sure that's banned" > Instead, it's "wow, who could've known?!" I don't know how to read this any other way. Enforcing sanctions properly is something the EU has struggled with (https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/strict-and-uniform-improving-eu-sanctions-enforcement https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/strict-and-uniform... gives an example of DPRK collecting hostel revenue in Berlin for years with no penalties ever administered), but that is different from saying that "import by proxy" is was unknown and not banned.