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Thank you very much for taking the time to provide us with this elaborate answer. Though I think there's truth to your skeptical view and tentative conclusions,

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide us with this elaborate answer. Though I think there's truth to your skeptical view and tentative conclusions, I believe a more nuanced theory would be closer to reality. 1. Indeed management needs to lie regularly. Probably after a while they will consider them coloured white more easily. 2. You can't. It can be compared to donating to charity, you're never sure if it is well spent. 3. If you already are holding horses to not lie at your current function class, probably it is better to leave than to make promotion. Also, not all companies are the same, some are based on a piramid of lies, other much less so. After being part of different types of organizations, I can safely conclude. 4. Complete honesty is a utopian take. Compare it to honesty in a relationship, sometimes it is better to remain silent, even if you vowed to the contrary. 5. For some, for sure. For most, it is more about power and recognition. That does not nedd be a bad thing. As a tentative conclusion, to me it is very clear it would be good for your health to look out for another employer. You will see that there is a huge difference between organisations. Your grim outlook will brighten up, I can almost guarantee.

ludicity 4y ago
Very much the conclusions I had reached myself over the past few days, where it seems that some degree of dishonesty is necessary and a lot of it depends on the people you're working with (I guess we should be nuanced by default). You're right though, I've been doing this after finding an employer that has much happier staff than most I've worked at, on a team that actually accomplishes complex tasks. It was a massive improvement to my mental health (i.e, your advice is good), but ultimately, my work is still largely wasted due to organizational issues. I don't consider this outlook terribly grim. I'm always free to pick up another career or start my own business, and I think it's less upsetting to realize that some of the people lying at least have good motivations. I think 2. is the crux of the matter - if you can't be sure it is time well-spent, it makes a lot of sense to exit structures where that is the case, assuming two things. One being that you highly value your work producing something (as opposed to say, not having much stress at work) and two being that you believe you can reasonably find better work. On the latter point, as I was discussing with a friend who is quite senior the other day, it depends entirely on whether you've given up on finding a truly impactful/happy workplace. Many of my friends in tech have gone for the latter, and are simply trying to get their salaries high enough to retire ASAP. Some smaller group have been working hard to transform faulty organizations with mixed results. I have friends outside of tech who have no such qualms, and have happily found roles where they know they're having a positive social impact, earn decently, and manage their own time (and being their own manager seems to be an effective antidote to needing to lie - perhaps there's some interface with a customer where they might need to stretch the truth a bit, but it's not like book store owners and barbers are walking around spouting off garbage all day). In any case, I very much appreciate your thoughts!

ludicity 4y ago

Very much the conclusions I had reached myself over the past few days, where it seems that some degree of dishonesty is necessary and a lot of it depends on the people you're working with (I guess we should be nuanced by default). You're right though, I've been doing this after finding an employer that has much happier staff than most I've worked at, on a team that actually accomplishes complex tasks. It was a massive improvement to my mental health (i.e, your advice is good), but ultimately, my work is still largely wasted due to organizational issues. I don't consider this outlook terribly grim. I'm always free to pick up another career or start my own business, and I think it's less upsetting to realize that some of the people lying at least have good motivations. I think 2. is the crux of the matter - if you can't be sure it is time well-spent, it makes a lot of sense to exit structures where that is the case, assuming two things. One being that you highly value your work producing something (as opposed to say, not having much stress at work) and two being that you believe you can reasonably find better work. On the latter point, as I was discussing with a friend who is quite senior the other day, it depends entirely on whether you've given up on finding a truly impactful/happy workplace. Many of my friends in tech have gone for the latter, and are simply trying to get their salaries high enough to retire ASAP. Some smaller group have been working hard to transform faulty organizations with mixed results. I have friends outside of tech who have no such qualms, and have happily found roles where they know they're having a positive social impact, earn decently, and manage their own time (and being their own manager seems to be an effective antidote to needing to lie - perhaps there's some interface with a customer where they might need to stretch the truth a bit, but it's not like book store owners and barbers are walking around spouting off garbage all day). In any case, I very much appreciate your thoughts!