3 ms·

I think this is only half of the story. There are still lots of affordable houses - in parts of the country that no one wants to live anymore. The value of my s

I think this is only half of the story. There are still lots of affordable houses - in parts of the country that no one wants to live anymore. The value of my sibling's property in Illinois has barely kept up with inflation. So I think some of the national statistics about house prices vs number of units are a bit misleading. We're increasingly paying a premium because we are increasingly concentrating where we want to/need to live.

BenFranklin100 4y ago
People go where the jobs are. That’s increasingly in urban areas. It’s also where amenities like good hospitals and schools are located.
- legitster 4y ago
  One of the most eye opening books on this topic was "Order without Design" by Alain Bertaud. Essentially, cities exist entirely as job markets - where individuals make tradeoffs to handle geographic constraints. It will be interesting to see if the WFH shift changes this dynamic.
  - BenFranklin100 4y ago
    ‘Order without Design’ is one of my favorite books on the topic.
  - linguae 4y ago
    Even with working from home, some people have certain needs that are easier to fulfill in/near cities. For example, people with chronic medical conditions may have an easier time finding quality health care resources if they are closer to a metro area. Another consideration in America is being a member of an ethnic, religious, or sexual minority and how accepting each community is. It's sad that I have to bring this up in 2023, but it's reality.
  - Spartan-S63 4y ago
    Anecdotally, as a remote worker, I have little interest in leaving the urban core I live in. I rarely drive and walk most places I need to go. That quality of life makes a huge difference. I grew up in a suburban bedroom community where everything involved driving in a car and there were few places you could reasonably walk to. Regardless of my freedom to live where I want, I have little interest to move to low density suburbs or rural areas because the convenience of urban areas is just too nice for me.
alexjplant 4y ago
Very much this. Many of my friends in Southern California lament that they'll never be able to buy a home because in their minds houses _start_ at $750k. I bought a house for roughly one-third of that in a place that none of them would be caught dead so much as visiting. It's almost as though areas that are nice to live in are consequently in high demand which drives property values up... obviously NIMBYism, Prop 13, and a host of perverse incentives are also at play here but it doesn't change the fact that you gotta pay to play. If anybody's interested I just found this handy map [1] that illustrates precisely what I'm talking about, and since it's adjusted for income it paints a decent picture of why things are the way that they are. [1] https://abag.ca.gov/tools-resources/maps/map-month/how-large-are-incomes-each-us-county-compared-value-homes https://abag.ca.gov/tools-resources/maps/map-month/how-large...
- swearwolf 4y ago
  That map could almost be an electoral one if you flipped the red and blue. Which should tell you something about why your friends in SoCal don’t want to live in those cheaper places.
- EvanKnowles 4y ago
  The kind of houses that could be bought for that starting value in South Africa, in beautiful, safe neighourhoods, with 1gb/s internet connections...
ryukafalz 4y ago
But also the places people want/need to live are generally not building housing. The town next to mine has actually lost population since the year 2000 despite being in a very attractive location. Incidentally, most of the town is zoned exclusively for single family houses despite there being lots of duplexes there already. You can probably see how these two things might be related. :)
908B64B197 4y ago
> in parts of the country that no one wants to live anymore. The value of my sibling's property in Illinois has barely kept up with inflation. It reminds me of some politician in the south whining about people leaving the state (to get to the coast). And he wished silicon valley would "come to real America to create jobs here too". Of course, as you guessed it, it was one of the deep red states and we all can guess why people were leaving.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  “Real America” tells you everything you need to know.

BenFranklin100 4y ago

People go where the jobs are. That’s increasingly in urban areas. It’s also where amenities like good hospitals and schools are located.

legitster 4y ago
One of the most eye opening books on this topic was "Order without Design" by Alain Bertaud. Essentially, cities exist entirely as job markets - where individuals make tradeoffs to handle geographic constraints. It will be interesting to see if the WFH shift changes this dynamic.
- BenFranklin100 4y ago
  ‘Order without Design’ is one of my favorite books on the topic.
- linguae 4y ago
  Even with working from home, some people have certain needs that are easier to fulfill in/near cities. For example, people with chronic medical conditions may have an easier time finding quality health care resources if they are closer to a metro area. Another consideration in America is being a member of an ethnic, religious, or sexual minority and how accepting each community is. It's sad that I have to bring this up in 2023, but it's reality.
- Spartan-S63 4y ago
  Anecdotally, as a remote worker, I have little interest in leaving the urban core I live in. I rarely drive and walk most places I need to go. That quality of life makes a huge difference. I grew up in a suburban bedroom community where everything involved driving in a car and there were few places you could reasonably walk to. Regardless of my freedom to live where I want, I have little interest to move to low density suburbs or rural areas because the convenience of urban areas is just too nice for me.

alexjplant 4y ago

Very much this. Many of my friends in Southern California lament that they'll never be able to buy a home because in their minds houses _start_ at $750k. I bought a house for roughly one-third of that in a place that none of them would be caught dead so much as visiting. It's almost as though areas that are nice to live in are consequently in high demand which drives property values up... obviously NIMBYism, Prop 13, and a host of perverse incentives are also at play here but it doesn't change the fact that you gotta pay to play. If anybody's interested I just found this handy map [1] that illustrates precisely what I'm talking about, and since it's adjusted for income it paints a decent picture of why things are the way that they are. [1] https://abag.ca.gov/tools-resources/maps/map-month/how-large-are-incomes-each-us-county-compared-value-homes https://abag.ca.gov/tools-resources/maps/map-month/how-large...

swearwolf 4y ago
That map could almost be an electoral one if you flipped the red and blue. Which should tell you something about why your friends in SoCal don’t want to live in those cheaper places.
EvanKnowles 4y ago
The kind of houses that could be bought for that starting value in South Africa, in beautiful, safe neighourhoods, with 1gb/s internet connections...

ryukafalz 4y ago

But also the places people want/need to live are generally not building housing. The town next to mine has actually lost population since the year 2000 despite being in a very attractive location. Incidentally, most of the town is zoned exclusively for single family houses despite there being lots of duplexes there already. You can probably see how these two things might be related. :)

908B64B197 4y ago

> in parts of the country that no one wants to live anymore. The value of my sibling's property in Illinois has barely kept up with inflation. It reminds me of some politician in the south whining about people leaving the state (to get to the coast). And he wished silicon valley would "come to real America to create jobs here too". Of course, as you guessed it, it was one of the deep red states and we all can guess why people were leaving.

swearwolf 4y ago
“Real America” tells you everything you need to know.