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> Why not? @arp242 Because it's harmful to society as a whole. Many things that are overtly harmful to society, we have enacted laws against. This is no dif

> Why not? @arp242 Because it's harmful to society as a whole. Many things that are overtly harmful to society, we have enacted laws against. This is no different. Licensing vs. Ownership. Licensing is predatory behavior aimed at deceiving, manipulating, and fleecing the populace. It's easily proven with math and economic studies already done and published. Why are you in favor of an overtly predatory policy, @arp242?

arp242 4y ago
I don't think it's predatory at all as long as the terms are clear up front. I know I keep repeating myself, but I really think that's the problem here. The predatory part is that consumers think they are paying for A while in fact they are paying for B. This doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong with B though. That you don't like this model is fair and reasonable. But that doesn't mean we should ban it. I certainly don't see how it's "harmful to a society as a whole"; the only truly harmful part I see is the deception (as well as the overly long copyright duration in general, but that's a bit of a different issue and reducing copyright to a more reasonable term won't mean the death of Kindle or these kind of business models). All of this is true for any purchase you make, and why there are clear laws in the EU for example which state that the full price must be shown up-front, with a breakdown of the cost. So this applies to more than just e-books. These laws should be expanded.
- op00to 4y ago
  Sorry, all books must be available in perpetuity in exact original form. If edits are required, a permission slip must be filed with the appropriate bureau, and a letter sent to each ebook purchaser informing them of intent to publish a typographical error correction. Upon unanimous consent from all ebook purchasers, only then may a new version of the book be made available with a large disclaimer that the new copy of the book has changes. Or that’s what most people in this thread would probably want.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > Sorry, all books must be available in perpetuity in exact original form. Not necessarily available for purchase at any time, but you if purchased access to a particular version, you should have that access. Opting in to updates is fine, mandatory, compulsory updates are not.
- lukeschlather 4y ago
  I'm not sure if you're really disagreeing. The fundamental principle is that if you characterize it as a purchase the license has to be irrevocable. I can't really speak for anyone else, but for me, I don't think it should be legal to advertise a license for sale that is revocable. If the license is revocable then you must explicitly use language like "rent" or "license" but never "buy" or "purchase."
op00to 4y ago
What harm to society was caused? Can you quantify it, or is it just a feeling?

arp242 4y ago

I don't think it's predatory at all as long as the terms are clear up front. I know I keep repeating myself, but I really think that's the problem here. The predatory part is that consumers think they are paying for A while in fact they are paying for B. This doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong with B though. That you don't like this model is fair and reasonable. But that doesn't mean we should ban it. I certainly don't see how it's "harmful to a society as a whole"; the only truly harmful part I see is the deception (as well as the overly long copyright duration in general, but that's a bit of a different issue and reducing copyright to a more reasonable term won't mean the death of Kindle or these kind of business models). All of this is true for any purchase you make, and why there are clear laws in the EU for example which state that the full price must be shown up-front, with a breakdown of the cost. So this applies to more than just e-books. These laws should be expanded.

op00to 4y ago
Sorry, all books must be available in perpetuity in exact original form. If edits are required, a permission slip must be filed with the appropriate bureau, and a letter sent to each ebook purchaser informing them of intent to publish a typographical error correction. Upon unanimous consent from all ebook purchasers, only then may a new version of the book be made available with a large disclaimer that the new copy of the book has changes. Or that’s what most people in this thread would probably want.
- naasking 4y ago
  > Sorry, all books must be available in perpetuity in exact original form. Not necessarily available for purchase at any time, but you if purchased access to a particular version, you should have that access. Opting in to updates is fine, mandatory, compulsory updates are not.
lukeschlather 4y ago
I'm not sure if you're really disagreeing. The fundamental principle is that if you characterize it as a purchase the license has to be irrevocable. I can't really speak for anyone else, but for me, I don't think it should be legal to advertise a license for sale that is revocable. If the license is revocable then you must explicitly use language like "rent" or "license" but never "buy" or "purchase."

op00to 4y ago

What harm to society was caused? Can you quantify it, or is it just a feeling?