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The rest of the ecosystem is not benefited by humans being cancer. Humans are not benefited by obliterating biodiversity, although they may not have felt many o

The rest of the ecosystem is not benefited by humans being cancer. Humans are not benefited by obliterating biodiversity, although they may not have felt many of its effects yet. Growth is not inherently good, uncontrolled growth is certainly not.

gruez 4y ago
>Growth is not inherently good, uncontrolled growth is certainly not. That's a nice soundbite, but what does that translate into in terms of actual policy? Do we cap growth at 2% or whatever and call it a day?
- mxkopy 4y ago
  Most if not all of our social problems can be solved with enough education. If you're the type of person to read census data for fun you'll probably not want to have kids. If you're exposed to the liberal arts continuously throughout your life, you're less likely to take metrics at face value. The system is just like any other: you put garbage in it, and you'll get garbage out of it.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >Most if not all of our social problems can be solved with enough education. So by "controlled growth", you actually mean "better education"? What type of education you think is needed? Do you think that making sure everyone has a bachelors is magically going to make growth "controlled" enough for your tastes?
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Raising education and income levels actually does bring population growth rate to below maintenance levels. A wealthy and educated society tends to shrink.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- trilbyglens 4y ago
  What it looks like is putting far more regulation in place surrounding hiring and employee protections. Layoffs have not hit Europe to the same extent largely because it's slower and more cumbersome to hire and fire, so employers are naturally more cautious. In the US you can hire and fire at will, so why be cautious? If companies were required to give 2 months notice like they are in many EU countries you bet your ass they'd be more cautious. Like often enough, the problem is not capitalism per se, but rather the completely unregulated American variant of capitalism.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    The EU tech sector has been repeatedly reamed out by US and Chinese companies. They aren't a model to copy; something went badly wrong in Europe over the last few decades. Possibly they are too slow to hire when an opportunity presents. I went to have a look at what powerful and inspiring tech companies the Europeans have managed to put together [0] - they've got ASML (decent effort) and SAP (wouldn't want to hang my hat on that). FAANG, TSMC and the AI revolution are not things that the Europeans have the capability to organise. They even had phones taken off them because they just couldn't make progress happen. [0] https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-by-market-cap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-b...
    - flangola7 4y ago
      Market cap of tech companies is a very poor metric to measure how good a civilization is or how enjoyable it would be to live in. I'm sure if we removed medical ethics requirements on human experimentation we could rapidly invent powerful new drugs like never before, but we don't because technological progress and economical growth are only two measures of a culture out of many.
  - danaris 4y ago
    I dare say it also looks like antitrust with teeth, abandoning the morally and intellectually bankrupt Chicago school approach (basically, "antitrust only needs to consider harm in the form of increased prices to the consumer"), and reversing the burden of proof on mergers (at least over a certain size), so that instead of having to prove harm to block them, the companies have to prove a genuine benefit in order to merge. Now, granted, growth in the size of a company is only one form of growth, and this wouldn't be sufficient to stop the "ever-increasing growth at all costs" mindset that's infected our corporate culture, but it is a necessary step.
kilgnad 4y ago
Depends on the timescale in which you view it. The overall earth benefits through natural selection. A creature or ecosystem that overloads itself is selected out through self suicide paving the way for a more stable system to take it's place. Uncontrolled growth is simply a method of selection. Natural selection.

gruez 4y ago

>Growth is not inherently good, uncontrolled growth is certainly not. That's a nice soundbite, but what does that translate into in terms of actual policy? Do we cap growth at 2% or whatever and call it a day?

mxkopy 4y ago
Most if not all of our social problems can be solved with enough education. If you're the type of person to read census data for fun you'll probably not want to have kids. If you're exposed to the liberal arts continuously throughout your life, you're less likely to take metrics at face value. The system is just like any other: you put garbage in it, and you'll get garbage out of it.
- gruez 4y ago
  >Most if not all of our social problems can be solved with enough education. So by "controlled growth", you actually mean "better education"? What type of education you think is needed? Do you think that making sure everyone has a bachelors is magically going to make growth "controlled" enough for your tastes?
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Raising education and income levels actually does bring population growth rate to below maintenance levels. A wealthy and educated society tends to shrink.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
trilbyglens 4y ago
What it looks like is putting far more regulation in place surrounding hiring and employee protections. Layoffs have not hit Europe to the same extent largely because it's slower and more cumbersome to hire and fire, so employers are naturally more cautious. In the US you can hire and fire at will, so why be cautious? If companies were required to give 2 months notice like they are in many EU countries you bet your ass they'd be more cautious. Like often enough, the problem is not capitalism per se, but rather the completely unregulated American variant of capitalism.
- roenxi 4y ago
  The EU tech sector has been repeatedly reamed out by US and Chinese companies. They aren't a model to copy; something went badly wrong in Europe over the last few decades. Possibly they are too slow to hire when an opportunity presents. I went to have a look at what powerful and inspiring tech companies the Europeans have managed to put together [0] - they've got ASML (decent effort) and SAP (wouldn't want to hang my hat on that). FAANG, TSMC and the AI revolution are not things that the Europeans have the capability to organise. They even had phones taken off them because they just couldn't make progress happen. [0] https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-by-market-cap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/tech/largest-tech-companies-b...
  - flangola7 4y ago
    Market cap of tech companies is a very poor metric to measure how good a civilization is or how enjoyable it would be to live in. I'm sure if we removed medical ethics requirements on human experimentation we could rapidly invent powerful new drugs like never before, but we don't because technological progress and economical growth are only two measures of a culture out of many.
- danaris 4y ago
  I dare say it also looks like antitrust with teeth, abandoning the morally and intellectually bankrupt Chicago school approach (basically, "antitrust only needs to consider harm in the form of increased prices to the consumer"), and reversing the burden of proof on mergers (at least over a certain size), so that instead of having to prove harm to block them, the companies have to prove a genuine benefit in order to merge. Now, granted, growth in the size of a company is only one form of growth, and this wouldn't be sufficient to stop the "ever-increasing growth at all costs" mindset that's infected our corporate culture, but it is a necessary step.

kilgnad 4y ago

Depends on the timescale in which you view it. The overall earth benefits through natural selection. A creature or ecosystem that overloads itself is selected out through self suicide paving the way for a more stable system to take it's place. Uncontrolled growth is simply a method of selection. Natural selection.