31 ms·

I’ve grown to hate using a mouse, and love the MacBook trackpad. Having your hands so close to both keyboard and trackpad means less travel time between.

mouse_ 4y ago
That's why I like trackpoint. Mouse without as much as moving your fingers from the home row.
- notpushkin 4y ago
  I like the idea behind trackpoint, but I just can't get used to it. Any tips?
  - torgoguys 4y ago
    Force yourself to use it exclusively for a while, no cheating. For better (it's great) AND worse (you have fewer options for laptops), there's no going back after that. I love it and even use Trackpoint with my desktop computer.
    - askiiart 4y ago
      Are there any hot-swappaple mechanical keyboards with a trackpoint? The only mechanical keyboard with a trackpoint I can find is the Tex Yoda II, which isn't hot-swappaple, and is also very expensive.
      - projektfu 4y ago
        I had a Unicomp but the trackpoint wasn't as good as the Thinkpad* and it broke dead after about a year. Avoid. *Thinkpad 560X! It was worse than a machine 17 years younger. I'm not sure which version the 560X had.
        mtrower 4y ago
        > it broke dead after about a year. For clarification --- the trackpoint broke, right? Not the whole damn keyboard?
    - mgkimsal 4y ago
      I used a couple variations for about 2 years - Thinkpads with a red trackpoint thingy. never liked them. Continually felt unnatural and clunky. Mac trackpad was a game changer for me. Glad you found something that works for you.
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    It really helps if you set up your environment to mostly not need accurate clicks. For example, avoid needing to grab window title bars or corners, use keyboard-driven window managers. Use keyboard commands instead of clicking buttons. When I last used a Thinkpad, the only time I had to aim at all was clicking links on web pages. I still used the trackpoint to switch active window, but it was a "shove toward upper right", not aiming the pointer at anything (I liked the spatial aspect of it, compared to keybindings). I also had it configured to move significantly faster on strong input, and slow down with gentle input.
    - mouse_ 4y ago
      The way I have my trackpoint set up (low sensitivity, no acceleration) makes it more accurate than trackpad, even. No acceleration means it always behaves extremely predictably; for me it's most useful when typing in forms and clicking around in them. It's extremely accurate and useful when set up properly. You can make tons of fine, precise movements and clicks when filling out documents and forms without even needing to move your hands from the keyboard.
      - yencabulator 4y ago
        Low sensitivity and no acceleration means it takes a very long time to move from one side of screen to the other. I guess I really don't fill in many forms where I can't tab between fields. But many of my habits also predate mainstream availability of GUIs...
ActorNightly 4y ago
True, but in terms of development, the main use of mouse is really selecting text for copy and paste (unless you are hardcore vim user), and scrolling. Id be impressed if the speed at which you can select text accurately is higher on the trackpad than a mouse. I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse. Maybe its my FPS gaming days that make me better at this, but then again, nobody really plays FPS seriously using trackpads
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  Not a gamer - haven't 'gamed' since pitfall - so no experience with mouse vs trackpad in that respect. What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be. "I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse." Not really sure what you're getting at. Selecting with a... trackpoint can be faster than using a mouse? Maybe, for some people. I'm constantly surprised by mouse-using/GUI people who always do so much more with a mouse than you need to. But I'm not sure that takes away any argument from the mac trackpad.
  - mtrower 4y ago
    > Not really sure what you're getting at. Pretty sure they're saying that mouse accuracy trumps trackpad for cut/paste operations. > What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be. Yeah, these are great. You can get the best of both worlds on a Magic Mouse, though. Personally I do alright with a trackpad, but I also lean heavily on the keyboard regardless of auxiliary input devices. In particular, I don't do pointer-heavy workloads like e.g. image editing.

mouse_ 4y ago

That's why I like trackpoint. Mouse without as much as moving your fingers from the home row.

notpushkin 4y ago
I like the idea behind trackpoint, but I just can't get used to it. Any tips?
- torgoguys 4y ago
  Force yourself to use it exclusively for a while, no cheating. For better (it's great) AND worse (you have fewer options for laptops), there's no going back after that. I love it and even use Trackpoint with my desktop computer.
  - askiiart 4y ago
    Are there any hot-swappaple mechanical keyboards with a trackpoint? The only mechanical keyboard with a trackpoint I can find is the Tex Yoda II, which isn't hot-swappaple, and is also very expensive.
    - projektfu 4y ago
      I had a Unicomp but the trackpoint wasn't as good as the Thinkpad* and it broke dead after about a year. Avoid. *Thinkpad 560X! It was worse than a machine 17 years younger. I'm not sure which version the 560X had.
      - mtrower 4y ago
        > it broke dead after about a year. For clarification --- the trackpoint broke, right? Not the whole damn keyboard?
  - mgkimsal 4y ago
    I used a couple variations for about 2 years - Thinkpads with a red trackpoint thingy. never liked them. Continually felt unnatural and clunky. Mac trackpad was a game changer for me. Glad you found something that works for you.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  It really helps if you set up your environment to mostly not need accurate clicks. For example, avoid needing to grab window title bars or corners, use keyboard-driven window managers. Use keyboard commands instead of clicking buttons. When I last used a Thinkpad, the only time I had to aim at all was clicking links on web pages. I still used the trackpoint to switch active window, but it was a "shove toward upper right", not aiming the pointer at anything (I liked the spatial aspect of it, compared to keybindings). I also had it configured to move significantly faster on strong input, and slow down with gentle input.
  - mouse_ 4y ago
    The way I have my trackpoint set up (low sensitivity, no acceleration) makes it more accurate than trackpad, even. No acceleration means it always behaves extremely predictably; for me it's most useful when typing in forms and clicking around in them. It's extremely accurate and useful when set up properly. You can make tons of fine, precise movements and clicks when filling out documents and forms without even needing to move your hands from the keyboard.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      Low sensitivity and no acceleration means it takes a very long time to move from one side of screen to the other. I guess I really don't fill in many forms where I can't tab between fields. But many of my habits also predate mainstream availability of GUIs...

ActorNightly 4y ago

True, but in terms of development, the main use of mouse is really selecting text for copy and paste (unless you are hardcore vim user), and scrolling. Id be impressed if the speed at which you can select text accurately is higher on the trackpad than a mouse. I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse. Maybe its my FPS gaming days that make me better at this, but then again, nobody really plays FPS seriously using trackpads

mgkimsal 4y ago
Not a gamer - haven't 'gamed' since pitfall - so no experience with mouse vs trackpad in that respect. What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be. "I have seen lots of developers at work on their macbooks do the standard select text->copy->paste, and everyone is way slower at this then people who use mouse." Not really sure what you're getting at. Selecting with a... trackpoint can be faster than using a mouse? Maybe, for some people. I'm constantly surprised by mouse-using/GUI people who always do so much more with a mouse than you need to. But I'm not sure that takes away any argument from the mac trackpad.
- mtrower 4y ago
  > Not really sure what you're getting at. Pretty sure they're saying that mouse accuracy trumps trackpad for cut/paste operations. > What seems missing from all this is the notion of gestures. The two finger scroll, single finger pointer move, pinch/zoom, etc - the trackpad is flexible in ways a trackpoint thing just can't be. Yeah, these are great. You can get the best of both worlds on a Magic Mouse, though. Personally I do alright with a trackpad, but I also lean heavily on the keyboard regardless of auxiliary input devices. In particular, I don't do pointer-heavy workloads like e.g. image editing.