17 ms·

Insert obligatory mention of: Amazon removes some editions of Orwell's 1984 from Kindle Devices after issue with owner of book rights (2009) https://news.ycomb

by smcin 4y ago

Insert obligatory mention of: Amazon removes some editions of Orwell's 1984 from Kindle Devices after issue with owner of book rights (2009) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8930904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8930904 NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18ama...

smsm42 4y ago
At least they could explain this one away with "it's just a copyright issue, we're not censoring anything". Here it's plain and open censorship, initiated by the publisher.
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
  Aren't both versions freely available? Seems strange to call something censorship when nothing has been censored.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    Replacing one copy with another in your own device is a fairly intrusive act. We don't have a word for it yet, given that classical censorship developed in the era of printed books, when such activities were technologically impossible. But I would say that it falls under penumbra of censorship because of the intent. And the intent is to remove certain speech from average reader's view without the reader's consent. Censorship does not have to be total in order to be censorship. Even in authoritarian states, small oppositional media outlets may be tolerated, so that foreign accusations of media control can be rebuked: "Hey, look at Radio X, we are definitely not censoring them." But their reach is carefully kept limited.
    - justinclift 4y ago
      > We don't have a word for it yet "Computer Fraud and Abuse" seems like it would cover it? :) Here in Australia, maybe "Unauthorised access with intent" too. Would need real lawyers/court to figure it out though.
      - op00to 4y ago
        You didn’t buy a book. You bought a license for the content that can be revoked at any time. You also licensed the ebook provider to remove or alter the content as they see fit. Don’t want changing books? Pirate your ebook or buy a paper book.
        account42 4y ago
        > You didn’t buy a book. You bought a license for the content that can be revoked at any time. Odd, when I look at a Kindle book on Amazon it shows a button to "Buy now". > You also licensed the ebook provider to remove or alter the content as they see fit. It is good that at least the EU has started to recognize the concept of informed consent. Clicking agree on a multi-page contract when that is the only way to access content that you (or someone else) have already paid for is not it. > Don’t want changing books? Pirate your ebook or buy a paper book. Those are the immediately available options, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept digital "purchases" being whatever the seller wants them to be while still trying to lure in people by making it seem they are buying something.
        cykros 4y ago
        They should do it with the Holy Bible. Then it can really be the "living word" of God.
        gregw2 4y ago
        They do. NIV 1984 is not todays NIV. (But having once reviewed a swath of inclusiveness edits via side by side comparisons first hand out of intellectual curiosity about what is going on, it was kinda a nothingburger was my takeaway.)
        smsm42 4y ago
        NIV is a translation though. Having different translations is a normal thing. Having different originals not so much.
        4y ago
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Not "freely", as it is under copyright. The copyright holders may allow you to access the unbowdlerized version, at additional effort with separate payment. Or they may one day decide otherwise and your access is instantly gone. Unless of course you go to samizdat...
gorwell 4y ago
What are the odds. No really, what are the odds?
- smcin 4y ago
  I gotta say, no higher way to honor the spirit of the great man, with a truckload of irony... (Imagine the near future, when GPT denounces citizens to the police for reading unapproved texts... Philip K Dick cross Orwell cross Ray Bradbury.)
  - andai 4y ago
    Seems like a good place to chime in with my personal anxiety about AI: that each citizen will have an AI assigned to spy on them full time. So they already have all the data, but nobody is looking at it. But soon (or perhaps already) we'd have (the functional equivalent of) a conscious being paying 100% attention to your every act. It's almost flattering!
    - Aerroon 4y ago
      And then the police are allowed to use that data through dragnets. Wrong time wrong place? Enjoy the police coaxing everything they want out of the AI about you.
    - Animats 4y ago
      > Seems like a good place to chime in with my personal anxiety about AI: that each citizen will have an AI assigned to spy on them full time. We're there. It's outsourced to Google, Facebook, and Amazon. "Why isn't your desk in front of the telescreen?" - 1984
    - photochemsyn 4y ago
      I think that was part of DARPA's 2001 Total Information Awareness progam. For 330 million American citizens, let's see, that's about a $100,000 upfront investment each at todays's prices? So um, 33 trillion dollars? Add in economies of scale, maybe 3-4 trillion dollars? About half the cost of the Iraq War and Afghan War combined? Who needs infrastructure, education, public health, etc. when your primary concern is spying on your own population? The STASI and Gestapo - and their clients - would have understood.
chasil 4y ago
FYI, all of Orwell's works have entered the public domain in Australia. The Australian Project Gutenberg site has them available for free download. https://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-n-z.html#orwell https://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-n-z.html#orwell
lostlogin 4y ago
For something slightly different, the graphic novel version is really good. Someone different to the novel. I completely recommend them both. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48930315 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48930315
- exodust 4y ago
  Thanks. I always forget about graphic novels. I should buy more. Last one I bought was years ago, about Jimi Hendrix. Still available but I don't know if you get the audio CD with it containing his solo acoustic home recordings. Very nicely illustrated: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42100.Voodoo_Child https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42100.Voodoo_Child

by smcin 4y ago

smsm42 4y ago

At least they could explain this one away with "it's just a copyright issue, we're not censoring anything". Here it's plain and open censorship, initiated by the publisher.

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
Aren't both versions freely available? Seems strange to call something censorship when nothing has been censored.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  Replacing one copy with another in your own device is a fairly intrusive act. We don't have a word for it yet, given that classical censorship developed in the era of printed books, when such activities were technologically impossible. But I would say that it falls under penumbra of censorship because of the intent. And the intent is to remove certain speech from average reader's view without the reader's consent. Censorship does not have to be total in order to be censorship. Even in authoritarian states, small oppositional media outlets may be tolerated, so that foreign accusations of media control can be rebuked: "Hey, look at Radio X, we are definitely not censoring them." But their reach is carefully kept limited.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > We don't have a word for it yet "Computer Fraud and Abuse" seems like it would cover it? :) Here in Australia, maybe "Unauthorised access with intent" too. Would need real lawyers/court to figure it out though.
    - op00to 4y ago
      You didn’t buy a book. You bought a license for the content that can be revoked at any time. You also licensed the ebook provider to remove or alter the content as they see fit. Don’t want changing books? Pirate your ebook or buy a paper book.
      - account42 4y ago
        > You didn’t buy a book. You bought a license for the content that can be revoked at any time. Odd, when I look at a Kindle book on Amazon it shows a button to "Buy now". > You also licensed the ebook provider to remove or alter the content as they see fit. It is good that at least the EU has started to recognize the concept of informed consent. Clicking agree on a multi-page contract when that is the only way to access content that you (or someone else) have already paid for is not it. > Don’t want changing books? Pirate your ebook or buy a paper book. Those are the immediately available options, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept digital "purchases" being whatever the seller wants them to be while still trying to lure in people by making it seem they are buying something.
      - cykros 4y ago
        They should do it with the Holy Bible. Then it can really be the "living word" of God.
        gregw2 4y ago
        They do. NIV 1984 is not todays NIV. (But having once reviewed a swath of inclusiveness edits via side by side comparisons first hand out of intellectual curiosity about what is going on, it was kinda a nothingburger was my takeaway.)
        smsm42 4y ago
        NIV is a translation though. Having different translations is a normal thing. Having different originals not so much.
        4y ago
- smsm42 4y ago
  Not "freely", as it is under copyright. The copyright holders may allow you to access the unbowdlerized version, at additional effort with separate payment. Or they may one day decide otherwise and your access is instantly gone. Unless of course you go to samizdat...

gorwell 4y ago

What are the odds. No really, what are the odds?

smcin 4y ago
I gotta say, no higher way to honor the spirit of the great man, with a truckload of irony... (Imagine the near future, when GPT denounces citizens to the police for reading unapproved texts... Philip K Dick cross Orwell cross Ray Bradbury.)
- andai 4y ago
  Seems like a good place to chime in with my personal anxiety about AI: that each citizen will have an AI assigned to spy on them full time. So they already have all the data, but nobody is looking at it. But soon (or perhaps already) we'd have (the functional equivalent of) a conscious being paying 100% attention to your every act. It's almost flattering!
  - Aerroon 4y ago
    And then the police are allowed to use that data through dragnets. Wrong time wrong place? Enjoy the police coaxing everything they want out of the AI about you.
  - Animats 4y ago
    > Seems like a good place to chime in with my personal anxiety about AI: that each citizen will have an AI assigned to spy on them full time. We're there. It's outsourced to Google, Facebook, and Amazon. "Why isn't your desk in front of the telescreen?" - 1984
  - photochemsyn 4y ago
    I think that was part of DARPA's 2001 Total Information Awareness progam. For 330 million American citizens, let's see, that's about a $100,000 upfront investment each at todays's prices? So um, 33 trillion dollars? Add in economies of scale, maybe 3-4 trillion dollars? About half the cost of the Iraq War and Afghan War combined? Who needs infrastructure, education, public health, etc. when your primary concern is spying on your own population? The STASI and Gestapo - and their clients - would have understood.

chasil 4y ago

FYI, all of Orwell's works have entered the public domain in Australia. The Australian Project Gutenberg site has them available for free download. https://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-n-z.html#orwell https://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-n-z.html#orwell

lostlogin 4y ago

For something slightly different, the graphic novel version is really good. Someone different to the novel. I completely recommend them both. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48930315 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/48930315

exodust 4y ago
Thanks. I always forget about graphic novels. I should buy more. Last one I bought was years ago, about Jimi Hendrix. Still available but I don't know if you get the audio CD with it containing his solo acoustic home recordings. Very nicely illustrated: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42100.Voodoo_Child https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42100.Voodoo_Child