3 ms·

You seem to be using a definition of "own" that differs from the one everyone else is using. The bank can't gain or lose money when your home changes in value.

by smt88 4y ago

You seem to be using a definition of "own" that differs from the one everyone else is using. The bank can't gain or lose money when your home changes in value. It can't enter your home without your permission, change the paint color, or sell your home. It can do these things if you become unable to pay for your mortgage. Your home is security for them, but you could buy a house with a loan secured by anything else. It's not uncommon for wealthy people to borrow against their stocks and then buy a home "in cash". In that situation, you'd never say "the bank owns their home" just because they owe the bank a bunch of money.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Importantly, it doesn't raise your rent 3-10% every year. Your property tax & insurance (usually less than 1/4th of your payment) goes up 2-3% (in most places).
- S201 4y ago
  > Your property tax & insurance [...] goes up 2-3% (in most places). Heh, or in my case: 30% this year.
  - hdespiritu 4y ago
    If it's your primary residence, the homestead tax credit can offset that increase substantially https://smartasset.com/taxes/what-is-a-homestead-tax-exemption https://smartasset.com/taxes/what-is-a-homestead-tax-exempti... OP's original point still stands. Real estate in America is designed to have many economic advantages for wealth accumulation and preservation. You might even go as far as saying the economic advantages of real estate are a byproduct of regulatory capture
    - nerdchum 4y ago
      > economic advantages of real estate are a byproduct of regulatory capture This seems correct to me. I don't think it's been specifically designed to be a store of wealth.
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    Yes, seriously. I have never seen two to three percent property tax increases.
    - medvezhenok 4y ago
      Prop 13 limits property tax increases to 2% or less in California :)
      - nerdchum 4y ago
        2% of the current property value am I right?? the property value that can skyrocket
        onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
        Nope. 2% max per year from your purchase price. There's people that own $8M dollar houses in Hollywood paying less property tax than people living in $800k condos.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  property tax is based on home value. people lose their homes all the time because the neighborhood gets gentrified and their home values go up and they can't afford the property tax. insurance can skyrocket based on natural disasters in your region. a lot of the Gulf Coast has trouble getting homeowners insurance. if earthquakes ever pick up on the west coast. the same thing will happen
RajT88 4y ago
I've seen this argument even devolve into: You don't own the land your home sits on. The government can take it any time they want and do whatever they want with your property; you don't really own your home even if you own it. I mean - at some point you get into a philosophical debate about, "What, really, is ownership?". Listen if you have a mortgage, you own the house by any common definition of the term.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  very good points you're making. does one truly ever own their home? or does one always have someone who tells them what to do via zoning or property tax or mortgage?
  - RajT88 4y ago
    > does one truly ever own their home? Does one really ever own anything, if someone can just take it from them free and clear? As I say, there's more than one philosophical perspective on this. I am not a philosopher, but here's my take on a few perspectives: - Pragmatist: If the law says your average person can't roll in and take it, you own it. - Libertarian: If the law says your average person can't roll in and take it, but corporations or HOA's or other entities tell you what you can and can't do with it, you don't own it. - Tribalist: If there's no law, and you can slaughter anyone who tries to take it, you own it. - Feudalist: If the law protects it, but the wealthy and powerful can just roll in and take it because they make the law, you own it. Until at least it becomes of value, then you can rent it back from its gracious new owners. - Communalist: You don't own it, the community owns it, but they're happy to allocate it for your usage as long as you play by their rules. - Common language: If you have a mortgage on it, you own it in the eyes of the law. If you stop paying the mortgage, or go into tax arrears, or at the victim of eminent domain, people can make it not-yours, but you still own it (for now). - Expansionist: If you were there first, you own it. Unless your culture has no concept of ownership, in which case, you don't own it, but someone else soon will.
    - nerdchum 4y ago
      no need for any rationalizations. think for yourself for a minute get down to the extreme basics. ownership means someone can't take your property. The only way to take someone's property unwillingly is with force/theft The government is supposed to protect you from this by being the only sanctioned use of force in the country. however, it does the opposite and takes your property by force itself.
xdennis 4y ago
> It's not uncommon for wealthy people to borrow against their stocks and then buy a home "in cash". In that situation, you'd never say "the bank owns their home" just because they owe the bank a bunch of money. The difference lies in whether or not they can take your house away. If you have a mortgage you're just renting until you pay in full. You don't own it until you fully pay. If take a loan, and buy a house with the money, they can't take away the house. Sure, you could say that you might be forced to sell your house to pay back the loan, but that would mean nobody owns anything if he has to sell something in a pinch.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  they could theoretically take you to court to get a judgment against you and take just about anything of yours. any debt you get in puts all of your assets at risk
nerdchum 4y ago
To me, it's not enough for someone to simply "identify" as an owner. To me the definition of ownership means someone cant come take your property if you don't do what they say. what's even more fascinating is that even after you pay off that mortgage, your land is still able to be taken from you forcefully if you don't pay your property taxes or the government sites you for code violation. you just traded masters from the bank to the government. homes are one of the biggest scams of modern times in my opinion.
- smt88 4y ago
  Yeah, again, you can redefine words however you want. Just be aware that you're doing it and will confuse people if you don't explain.
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    [flagged]

by smt88 4y ago

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Importantly, it doesn't raise your rent 3-10% every year. Your property tax & insurance (usually less than 1/4th of your payment) goes up 2-3% (in most places).

S201 4y ago
> Your property tax & insurance [...] goes up 2-3% (in most places). Heh, or in my case: 30% this year.
- hdespiritu 4y ago
  If it's your primary residence, the homestead tax credit can offset that increase substantially https://smartasset.com/taxes/what-is-a-homestead-tax-exemption https://smartasset.com/taxes/what-is-a-homestead-tax-exempti... OP's original point still stands. Real estate in America is designed to have many economic advantages for wealth accumulation and preservation. You might even go as far as saying the economic advantages of real estate are a byproduct of regulatory capture
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    > economic advantages of real estate are a byproduct of regulatory capture This seems correct to me. I don't think it's been specifically designed to be a store of wealth.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  Yes, seriously. I have never seen two to three percent property tax increases.
  - medvezhenok 4y ago
    Prop 13 limits property tax increases to 2% or less in California :)
    - nerdchum 4y ago
      2% of the current property value am I right?? the property value that can skyrocket
      - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
        Nope. 2% max per year from your purchase price. There's people that own $8M dollar houses in Hollywood paying less property tax than people living in $800k condos.
nerdchum 4y ago
property tax is based on home value. people lose their homes all the time because the neighborhood gets gentrified and their home values go up and they can't afford the property tax. insurance can skyrocket based on natural disasters in your region. a lot of the Gulf Coast has trouble getting homeowners insurance. if earthquakes ever pick up on the west coast. the same thing will happen

RajT88 4y ago

I've seen this argument even devolve into: You don't own the land your home sits on. The government can take it any time they want and do whatever they want with your property; you don't really own your home even if you own it. I mean - at some point you get into a philosophical debate about, "What, really, is ownership?". Listen if you have a mortgage, you own the house by any common definition of the term.

nerdchum 4y ago
very good points you're making. does one truly ever own their home? or does one always have someone who tells them what to do via zoning or property tax or mortgage?
- RajT88 4y ago
  > does one truly ever own their home? Does one really ever own anything, if someone can just take it from them free and clear? As I say, there's more than one philosophical perspective on this. I am not a philosopher, but here's my take on a few perspectives: - Pragmatist: If the law says your average person can't roll in and take it, you own it. - Libertarian: If the law says your average person can't roll in and take it, but corporations or HOA's or other entities tell you what you can and can't do with it, you don't own it. - Tribalist: If there's no law, and you can slaughter anyone who tries to take it, you own it. - Feudalist: If the law protects it, but the wealthy and powerful can just roll in and take it because they make the law, you own it. Until at least it becomes of value, then you can rent it back from its gracious new owners. - Communalist: You don't own it, the community owns it, but they're happy to allocate it for your usage as long as you play by their rules. - Common language: If you have a mortgage on it, you own it in the eyes of the law. If you stop paying the mortgage, or go into tax arrears, or at the victim of eminent domain, people can make it not-yours, but you still own it (for now). - Expansionist: If you were there first, you own it. Unless your culture has no concept of ownership, in which case, you don't own it, but someone else soon will.
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    no need for any rationalizations. think for yourself for a minute get down to the extreme basics. ownership means someone can't take your property. The only way to take someone's property unwillingly is with force/theft The government is supposed to protect you from this by being the only sanctioned use of force in the country. however, it does the opposite and takes your property by force itself.

xdennis 4y ago

> It's not uncommon for wealthy people to borrow against their stocks and then buy a home "in cash". In that situation, you'd never say "the bank owns their home" just because they owe the bank a bunch of money. The difference lies in whether or not they can take your house away. If you have a mortgage you're just renting until you pay in full. You don't own it until you fully pay. If take a loan, and buy a house with the money, they can't take away the house. Sure, you could say that you might be forced to sell your house to pay back the loan, but that would mean nobody owns anything if he has to sell something in a pinch.

nerdchum 4y ago
they could theoretically take you to court to get a judgment against you and take just about anything of yours. any debt you get in puts all of your assets at risk

nerdchum 4y ago

To me, it's not enough for someone to simply "identify" as an owner. To me the definition of ownership means someone cant come take your property if you don't do what they say. what's even more fascinating is that even after you pay off that mortgage, your land is still able to be taken from you forcefully if you don't pay your property taxes or the government sites you for code violation. you just traded masters from the bank to the government. homes are one of the biggest scams of modern times in my opinion.

smt88 4y ago
Yeah, again, you can redefine words however you want. Just be aware that you're doing it and will confuse people if you don't explain.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  [flagged]