6 ms·

There was a guy at MIT about ten years ago (edit: 2018! Woah) who made a headset that would read electrical impulses from your face. Apparently when people thin

by andai 4y ago

There was a guy at MIT about ten years ago (edit: 2018! Woah) who made a headset that would read electrical impulses from your face. Apparently when people think in words, the same nerves fire as when they speak, just at a lower activation level. Using those signals it is possible to reconstruct the words being thought. I'm surprised it didn't seem to go anywhere. Edit: found it https://youtu.be/RuUSc53Xpeg https://youtu.be/RuUSc53Xpeg

judge2020 4y ago
> I'm surprised it didn't seem to go anywhere. At least not publicly.
- danem 4y ago
  There have been some corporate research groups that have tried to take this approach further, and they all have more or less failed as far as I know.
- nottathrowaway3 4y ago
  [dead]
Filligree 4y ago
People only think in words right before they say something, so I'm not sure how big a deal this is. I guess they'd be able to predict what I'm writing half a second before I write it? Would be useful if I lost the ability to write or speak, for whatever reason.
- slingnow 4y ago
  Citation definitely needed. I have a nearly constant internal monologue that is 100% composed of words.
  - joadha 4y ago
    I only have that when I'm reading something and really trying to take it all in. Otherwise my internal monologue is a combination of notions, visions, and words. Do you think in complete sentences?
    - berniedurfee 4y ago
      I do
  - TechBro8615 4y ago
    Do you know what it's going to say next? If not, who's generating each new word? And if yes, then isn't this just subvocalization?
    - l33t233372 4y ago
      > If not, who's generating each new word Do you know what your next thought will be? If so, how? Did you think it before you thought it?
    - None4U 4y ago
      > who's generating each new word? Thinking
- judge2020 4y ago
  Many people do have an internal monologue. The vector is that some police unit presents you with a login form (eg. for your password manager or encrypted filesystem), and you involuntarily think of the password, which this device reads and presents to them.
  - airstrike 4y ago
    Joke's on them, my passwords are entirely unpronounceable
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      only my fingers know my passwords. And no way all ten will rat me out
      - djmips 4y ago
        oh yeah, maybe they'll put electrodes on your fingers! JK - this doesn't seem like a viable approach.
- Symmetry 4y ago
  The extent that people's thinking relies on inner monologue is something that varies wildly between different people. Likewise people's abilities to form mental images.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  I'm "thinking in words" this entire thread as I read it. Do some people read without hearing the words in their head?
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    This tends to start long threads with tons of anecdotes whenever it comes up but the answer is yes, some people do. (I usually do but not always, for example.) For lots and lots of discussion, you can search for things like this on e.g. Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/nosdwt/do_you_say_the_words_in_your_head_when_you_read/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/nosdwt/d...
  - Baeocystin 4y ago
    I don't have a word-based internal dialogue. When it's time to use words, like writing this post, sure, it's word time, so words are used. But if I'm just reading, I just take in chunks and phrases while constructing a meaning model. The sounds themselves (or even individual words) don't really enter into it.
    - berniedurfee 4y ago
      That’s really fascinating and very different from my experience. It’d be a really interesting project to measure and classify people’s individual thinking mechanisms. That daemon that seems to exist at the boundary of the conscious and unconscious. Then again, maybe we wouldn’t want that as yet another data point to be bought and sold.
  - TechBro8615 4y ago
    Yeah, personally - and this might be a controversial opinion - I think most people who say they have an inner monologue are actually misattributing their experience of subvocalization while either reading text, or planning hypothetical conversations with other people (like a child might speak to their imaginary friend). It seems dubious to label that a monologue, because it depends on external stimuli (either the text you're reading, or your previous experience with people to whom you're imagining yourself speaking). You might classify talking to yourself as a monologue, but when most people discuss this topic, it sounds like they're describing a dialogue (i.e. one between multiple people). That seems crazy to me, because who does the other voice belong to? If you have an inner monologue, then by definition you should be able to predict what it's going to say - because mono- means just you. Yet people talk about this experience like there is some novel conversation happening in their head. It's frightening to think about a voice in my head that is one thought ahead of me. If you experience this, how can you possibly feel in control of your own mind? When does an inner monologue become schizophrenia?
zamadatix 4y ago
The project page claims it's different process than thinking in words: > What exactly is “silent speech”? Does the user have to move his or her face or mouth to use the system? > Silent speech is different from either thinking of words or saying words out loud. Remember when you first learned to read? At first, you spoke the words you read out loud, but then you learned to voice them internally and silently. In order to then proceed to faster reading rates, you had to unlearn the “silent speaking” of the words you read. Silent speaking is a conscious effort to say a word, characterized by subtle movements of internal speech organs without actually voicing it. > Can this device read my mind? What about privacy? > No, this device cannot read your mind. The novelty of this system is that it reads signals from your facial and vocal cord muscles when you intentionally and silently voice words. The system does not have any direct and physical access to brain activity, and therefore cannot read a user's thoughts. It is crucial that the control over input resides absolutely with the user in all situations, and that such an interface not have access to a user's thoughts. The device only reads words that are deliberately silently spoken as inputs. https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/alterego/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/alterego/frequently-asked...

by andai 4y ago

judge2020 4y ago

> I'm surprised it didn't seem to go anywhere. At least not publicly.

danem 4y ago
There have been some corporate research groups that have tried to take this approach further, and they all have more or less failed as far as I know.
nottathrowaway3 4y ago
[dead]

Filligree 4y ago

People only think in words right before they say something, so I'm not sure how big a deal this is. I guess they'd be able to predict what I'm writing half a second before I write it? Would be useful if I lost the ability to write or speak, for whatever reason.

slingnow 4y ago
Citation definitely needed. I have a nearly constant internal monologue that is 100% composed of words.
- joadha 4y ago
  I only have that when I'm reading something and really trying to take it all in. Otherwise my internal monologue is a combination of notions, visions, and words. Do you think in complete sentences?
  - berniedurfee 4y ago
    I do
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  Do you know what it's going to say next? If not, who's generating each new word? And if yes, then isn't this just subvocalization?
  - l33t233372 4y ago
    > If not, who's generating each new word Do you know what your next thought will be? If so, how? Did you think it before you thought it?
  - None4U 4y ago
    > who's generating each new word? Thinking
judge2020 4y ago
Many people do have an internal monologue. The vector is that some police unit presents you with a login form (eg. for your password manager or encrypted filesystem), and you involuntarily think of the password, which this device reads and presents to them.
- airstrike 4y ago
  Joke's on them, my passwords are entirely unpronounceable
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    only my fingers know my passwords. And no way all ten will rat me out
    - djmips 4y ago
      oh yeah, maybe they'll put electrodes on your fingers! JK - this doesn't seem like a viable approach.
Symmetry 4y ago
The extent that people's thinking relies on inner monologue is something that varies wildly between different people. Likewise people's abilities to form mental images.
squeaky-clean 4y ago
I'm "thinking in words" this entire thread as I read it. Do some people read without hearing the words in their head?
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  This tends to start long threads with tons of anecdotes whenever it comes up but the answer is yes, some people do. (I usually do but not always, for example.) For lots and lots of discussion, you can search for things like this on e.g. Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/nosdwt/do_you_say_the_words_in_your_head_when_you_read/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/nosdwt/d...
- Baeocystin 4y ago
  I don't have a word-based internal dialogue. When it's time to use words, like writing this post, sure, it's word time, so words are used. But if I'm just reading, I just take in chunks and phrases while constructing a meaning model. The sounds themselves (or even individual words) don't really enter into it.
  - berniedurfee 4y ago
    That’s really fascinating and very different from my experience. It’d be a really interesting project to measure and classify people’s individual thinking mechanisms. That daemon that seems to exist at the boundary of the conscious and unconscious. Then again, maybe we wouldn’t want that as yet another data point to be bought and sold.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  Yeah, personally - and this might be a controversial opinion - I think most people who say they have an inner monologue are actually misattributing their experience of subvocalization while either reading text, or planning hypothetical conversations with other people (like a child might speak to their imaginary friend). It seems dubious to label that a monologue, because it depends on external stimuli (either the text you're reading, or your previous experience with people to whom you're imagining yourself speaking). You might classify talking to yourself as a monologue, but when most people discuss this topic, it sounds like they're describing a dialogue (i.e. one between multiple people). That seems crazy to me, because who does the other voice belong to? If you have an inner monologue, then by definition you should be able to predict what it's going to say - because mono- means just you. Yet people talk about this experience like there is some novel conversation happening in their head. It's frightening to think about a voice in my head that is one thought ahead of me. If you experience this, how can you possibly feel in control of your own mind? When does an inner monologue become schizophrenia?

zamadatix 4y ago

The project page claims it's different process than thinking in words: > What exactly is “silent speech”? Does the user have to move his or her face or mouth to use the system? > Silent speech is different from either thinking of words or saying words out loud. Remember when you first learned to read? At first, you spoke the words you read out loud, but then you learned to voice them internally and silently. In order to then proceed to faster reading rates, you had to unlearn the “silent speaking” of the words you read. Silent speaking is a conscious effort to say a word, characterized by subtle movements of internal speech organs without actually voicing it. > Can this device read my mind? What about privacy? > No, this device cannot read your mind. The novelty of this system is that it reads signals from your facial and vocal cord muscles when you intentionally and silently voice words. The system does not have any direct and physical access to brain activity, and therefore cannot read a user's thoughts. It is crucial that the control over input resides absolutely with the user in all situations, and that such an interface not have access to a user's thoughts. The device only reads words that are deliberately silently spoken as inputs. https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/alterego/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/alterego/frequently-asked...