4 ms·

I can put an airtag in my suitcase and track it all over the world but railroad operators can't pit bearing temperature sensors on their tank cars full of methl

I can put an airtag in my suitcase and track it all over the world but railroad operators can't pit bearing temperature sensors on their tank cars full of methlamine?

bombcar 4y ago
If something can go out of spec 99 times out of 100 and nothing "bad" happens, you may not want a thing that makes you stop when it's out of spec. It's not a good look, but that's often why it is done. Same reason that militaries have strict non wartime limits on lots of their equipment, they know it can run past the norm but they also know there are risks involved, and you don't want to risk it until it's necessary.
- notabee 4y ago
  This concept of normalization of deviance gets posted on here a lot, but I'm going to post a link again anyway. https://sma.nasa.gov/docs/default-source/safety-messages/safetymessage-normalizationofdeviance-2014-11-03b.pdf https://sma.nasa.gov/docs/default-source/safety-messages/saf...
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Exactly, it's the inverse of the boy-who-cried-wolf problem, and it's not entirely simple to solve.
    - wittenbunk 4y ago
      Its not the inverse. Boy who cried wolf and normalization of deviance are both about false positives.
extrapickles 4y ago
They don’t need to even do that, just occasionally send the train past a thermal camera and look for wheels that are warmer than average.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  It is very odd to me that states do this very thing for trucking, but apparently do not do it for rail.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    They did. It was ignored. IIRC, the exact wording from dispatch was "If it's still alerting at the next sensor it's a problem."
    - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
      Thanks for the clarification.
    - muttled 4y ago
      I'm astonished that they treat those alarms like I treated the check-engine light as a poor kid who reasoned that the car seems to still be running fine.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    Here's a page on several of the automatic checks that exist for railways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector
- benburwell 4y ago
  In general, this is actually done: there are defect detectors that are installed along tracks that monitor for several conditions as trains pass over/through them. Once the train has passed, a voice radio message is sent to the train crew. Here's an example of one working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BGg82uQ1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BGg82uQ1U I'm not sure whether similar equipment was a factor in the East Palestine incident.
supportengineer 4y ago
Nothing stops this train. Nothing.
- nebula8804 4y ago
  Sounds like the tagline for the next Hollywood blockbuster.
  - twh270 4y ago
    You kid, but the movie Unstoppable, about a runaway train, is based on a real life scenario. There are some interesting trivia details at https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_3 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_3.
    - nebula8804 4y ago
      Of course there is a movie ha ha. Thanks for that link. I guess it is part of the "Unstoppable" genre of movies huh? We have an unstoppable train, unstoppable bus, what else? An unstoppable car, truck, or plane? [1]:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111257/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111257/
      - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
        Speed 2 has the "unstoppable" boat.
      - rasz 4y ago
        pff movie from the nineties, you kids get off my lawn https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089941/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089941/
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
The don't want to. It increases the amount of time those cars are not hauling freight.
sangnoir 4y ago
The same reason airlines don't put airtags onto passengers suitcases: it costs a lot of money for thousands of units, plus labour and time cost - money which could be going to someones bonus (or shareholders). Also, they don't really care if your luggage gets lost, just like rail companies don't really care about this specific derailment - as long as they are making more money from the "efficiencies"

I can put an airtag in my suitcase and track it all over the world but railroad operators can't pit bearing temperature sensors on their tank cars full of methlamine?

bombcar 4y ago

If something can go out of spec 99 times out of 100 and nothing "bad" happens, you may not want a thing that makes you stop when it's out of spec. It's not a good look, but that's often why it is done. Same reason that militaries have strict non wartime limits on lots of their equipment, they know it can run past the norm but they also know there are risks involved, and you don't want to risk it until it's necessary.

notabee 4y ago
This concept of normalization of deviance gets posted on here a lot, but I'm going to post a link again anyway. https://sma.nasa.gov/docs/default-source/safety-messages/safetymessage-normalizationofdeviance-2014-11-03b.pdf https://sma.nasa.gov/docs/default-source/safety-messages/saf...
- bombcar 4y ago
  Exactly, it's the inverse of the boy-who-cried-wolf problem, and it's not entirely simple to solve.
  - wittenbunk 4y ago
    Its not the inverse. Boy who cried wolf and normalization of deviance are both about false positives.

extrapickles 4y ago

They don’t need to even do that, just occasionally send the train past a thermal camera and look for wheels that are warmer than average.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
It is very odd to me that states do this very thing for trucking, but apparently do not do it for rail.
- falcolas 4y ago
  They did. It was ignored. IIRC, the exact wording from dispatch was "If it's still alerting at the next sensor it's a problem."
  - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    Thanks for the clarification.
  - muttled 4y ago
    I'm astonished that they treat those alarms like I treated the check-engine light as a poor kid who reasoned that the car seems to still be running fine.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Here's a page on several of the automatic checks that exist for railways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector
benburwell 4y ago
In general, this is actually done: there are defect detectors that are installed along tracks that monitor for several conditions as trains pass over/through them. Once the train has passed, a voice radio message is sent to the train crew. Here's an example of one working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BGg82uQ1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BGg82uQ1U I'm not sure whether similar equipment was a factor in the East Palestine incident.

supportengineer 4y ago

Nothing stops this train. Nothing.

nebula8804 4y ago
Sounds like the tagline for the next Hollywood blockbuster.
- twh270 4y ago
  You kid, but the movie Unstoppable, about a runaway train, is based on a real life scenario. There are some interesting trivia details at https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_3 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_3.
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    Of course there is a movie ha ha. Thanks for that link. I guess it is part of the "Unstoppable" genre of movies huh? We have an unstoppable train, unstoppable bus, what else? An unstoppable car, truck, or plane? [1]:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111257/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111257/
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
      Speed 2 has the "unstoppable" boat.
    - rasz 4y ago
      pff movie from the nineties, you kids get off my lawn https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089941/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089941/

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

The don't want to. It increases the amount of time those cars are not hauling freight.

sangnoir 4y ago

The same reason airlines don't put airtags onto passengers suitcases: it costs a lot of money for thousands of units, plus labour and time cost - money which could be going to someones bonus (or shareholders). Also, they don't really care if your luggage gets lost, just like rail companies don't really care about this specific derailment - as long as they are making more money from the "efficiencies"