3 ms·

I didn't even know that this was a matter of debate. I had moderately serious heart problem (atrial murmur, sort of the less-serious cousin of afib/atrial fibr

I didn't even know that this was a matter of debate. I had moderately serious heart problem (atrial murmur, sort of the less-serious cousin of afib/atrial fibrilation) and it was extremely clear to me that whatever was happening in my chest was also directly spiking my feelings of anxiety. To be clear, I mean a direct heart->anxiety link, as opposed to "I'm thinking about my heart problem and therefore my anxiety is spiking" indirect link. On an experiential level it was very, very distinct from, say, being stressed out because your toenail hurts. I realize that I'm a sample of one, and self-diagnosing phenomena like that is not particularly reliable. However, it was so crystal clear to me that I would consider it something close to truth and would place the burden of proof on anybody looking to claim otherwise. There would certainly seem to be a significant biological advantage there, to having certain biological situations (pain, etc) cause a spike in corisol etc directly, as opposed to relying on the slower and less reliable processing our wonderful brains can provide. Especially in species with far simpler brains than humans.

bookofjoe 4y ago
>Cardiogenic control of affective behavioural state https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05748-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05748-8
adversaryIdiot 4y ago
Are you saying that once I get my Aortic valve replacement that I'll be less anxious?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  Most importantly: best wishes. I'm sure you've been through a looooot. I hope there are brighter days ahead. Does your current valve situation cause an elevated heart rate, presumably because your heart is is compensating for not pumping as efficiently as it should? I had a different issue and I'm extremely unqualified to have an opinion here, but based on my personal experience I'd be willing to put down a pretty decent sum of money on a bet that lowering your heart rate will reduce your anxiety directly. (And then you'll of course have lower stress in general I should think, because you won't be worrying about the upcoming valve replacement and all the uncertainly surrounding a major operation. But that part is pretty clear, I would think) Good luck!
  - cauthon 4y ago
    Bradycardia is more commonly associated with aortic valve regurgitation or stenosis, not tachycardia. My understanding is that the heart compensates for the dysfunctional valve by attempting to pump a greater volume with each stroke.
  - adversaryIdiot 4y ago
    Yeah, I discovered it by trying to figure out why my resting heart rate and blood pressure was higher than it should be for an athletic person. Used to take beta blockers to slow things down (Which I do wanna say made me more calm). Turns out the medication was causing more damage, ACE inhibitors would have been better. Right now I'm not taking anything. Just getting tests every 6 months and waiting for the time to come. I have fine resting heart rate around 70bpm and 130 blood pressure avg. (These numbers went down after college)
hinkley 4y ago
I have a friend with panic attacks and she was pretty much the last one in our circle of friends to figure out that stomach distress was triggering attacks. The Vagus nerve is a puppet master and it can fuck with your sense of well-being on a good day, but if you have an adrenal disorder, good fucking luck.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  stomach distress was triggering attacks. The Vagus nerve is a puppet master and it can fuck with your sense of well-being on a good day This rings true. I had one actual panic attack in my life and it was absolutely wild and confusing. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what caused it. I certainly was not particularly mentally stressed out that day. I'm not even really anxious in general compared to others. I am middle aged and have had a lot of acutely stressful days without panic attacks, and also just... a lot of days in general... so I can't imagine why an unstressful day lead to one. It certainly didn't feel like it originated within my brain. It felt like my body was triggering it. It felt like an incident in the past when I was diagnosed with acute pericarditis and nearly died. However, when I went to the ER following the panic attack, they found nothing physically wrong on the EKG. Of course, we are not necessarily biologically or cognitively well-equipped to self-diagnose "why" our brains are feeling a particular thing. But nonetheless whether it was my vagus nerve or something else, it certainly felt like it originated outside of my mind.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
As far as I know, it isn't. I have anxiety as part of the bipolar package. And every psychiatrist I've had says that increased blood pressure can trigger anxiety. They can both feel like tightness in the chest and from what I was told, the brain isn't good at separating signals. So your body feeling anxious leads to your brain feeling anxious. It's a wonderful cycle. Throw in asthma for more fun. Now you have three possible problems that can all trigger each other! Get sick and feel short of breath? Now you have four! Aren't bodies fun? :D
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  That's a wild package. You are dealing with a lot. I hope you are able to step back and give yourself credit once in a while for dealing with so much. The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. You are one of them. No bipolar here but for years I struggled with asthma for years. It is quite the addition to the whole anxiety mix. It definitely took me quite a while to figure out I was dealing with a heart issue, because the symptoms were really similar to asthma.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    > The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. I know you mean well, but I don't like being thought of as a superhero. It defines me by my limitations and hold me up as something exceptional. I actually find this to be quite harmful. :( Consider this: I only need to be exceptional because society would not allow me to be successful otherwise. There are many others with my disability who aren't. It borders on the edge of inspiration porn[1]. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2019/11/29/how-to-avoid-inspiration-porn/?sh=6b74a9e15b3d https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2019/11/29/how-to... I hope my comment isn't too harsh. It's been a long day. :)
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      Damn, I meant the opposite - I just wanted to recognize the struggle. But that's no excuse. Neither is the fact that I have disabilities as well. I'm very, very sorry and extremely appreciative that you took the time to explain that. I owe you.
AeroNotix 4y ago
I have GERD. Prior to properly getting diagnosed I went through a bunch of tests and episodes because the sensations manifested as heart-attack-like symptoms. I can tell you the anxiety produced was, ... palpable.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  That much have been an ordeal. A sibling poster posted about a friend having a very similar experience.
- aszantu 4y ago
  see gutsense.org, maybe it helps. also helped me to eat more gelatine (one teaspoon in the morning), seemingly the body can work these amino acids very fast and it sounds crazy but I felt the effects within a day. The main problem didn't go away for a long time, but a lot of small side issues went away.
orgels_revenge 4y ago
Eat potassium and chelated magnesium
memco 4y ago
Indeed! There's so much overlap between the symptoms of chronic kidney disease[0] and anxiety[1] it would be difficult to know which is which. [0]: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/kidney-disease/chronic-kidney-disease-ckd/what-is-chronic-kidney-disease https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/kidney-disease/... [1]: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/anxiety-disorders https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/anxiety-disorders
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
withinboredom 4y ago
EXACT same situation. I’ll never forget the time I felt a murmur and several seconds later I was panicking. This was before I was diagnosed so I legitimately thought I was having a heart attack. I wasn’t even worried about the murmur, in between those seconds I was thinking “huh, that was weird.” And then wam, slammed with adrenaline. I had never even had panic attacks before… I went to the doc, and he recognized the symptoms as a panic attack. I told the doc “no, you’re not listening. I have zero anxiety in my life right now.” Several dozen attacks later and a doctor that didn’t try to gaslight me into having an anxiety disorder, we found the heart problem. Fun times.

bookofjoe 4y ago

>Cardiogenic control of affective behavioural state https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05748-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05748-8

adversaryIdiot 4y ago

Are you saying that once I get my Aortic valve replacement that I'll be less anxious?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JohnBooty 4y ago
Most importantly: best wishes. I'm sure you've been through a looooot. I hope there are brighter days ahead. Does your current valve situation cause an elevated heart rate, presumably because your heart is is compensating for not pumping as efficiently as it should? I had a different issue and I'm extremely unqualified to have an opinion here, but based on my personal experience I'd be willing to put down a pretty decent sum of money on a bet that lowering your heart rate will reduce your anxiety directly. (And then you'll of course have lower stress in general I should think, because you won't be worrying about the upcoming valve replacement and all the uncertainly surrounding a major operation. But that part is pretty clear, I would think) Good luck!
- cauthon 4y ago
  Bradycardia is more commonly associated with aortic valve regurgitation or stenosis, not tachycardia. My understanding is that the heart compensates for the dysfunctional valve by attempting to pump a greater volume with each stroke.
- adversaryIdiot 4y ago
  Yeah, I discovered it by trying to figure out why my resting heart rate and blood pressure was higher than it should be for an athletic person. Used to take beta blockers to slow things down (Which I do wanna say made me more calm). Turns out the medication was causing more damage, ACE inhibitors would have been better. Right now I'm not taking anything. Just getting tests every 6 months and waiting for the time to come. I have fine resting heart rate around 70bpm and 130 blood pressure avg. (These numbers went down after college)

hinkley 4y ago

I have a friend with panic attacks and she was pretty much the last one in our circle of friends to figure out that stomach distress was triggering attacks. The Vagus nerve is a puppet master and it can fuck with your sense of well-being on a good day, but if you have an adrenal disorder, good fucking luck.

JohnBooty 4y ago
stomach distress was triggering attacks. The Vagus nerve is a puppet master and it can fuck with your sense of well-being on a good day This rings true. I had one actual panic attack in my life and it was absolutely wild and confusing. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what caused it. I certainly was not particularly mentally stressed out that day. I'm not even really anxious in general compared to others. I am middle aged and have had a lot of acutely stressful days without panic attacks, and also just... a lot of days in general... so I can't imagine why an unstressful day lead to one. It certainly didn't feel like it originated within my brain. It felt like my body was triggering it. It felt like an incident in the past when I was diagnosed with acute pericarditis and nearly died. However, when I went to the ER following the panic attack, they found nothing physically wrong on the EKG. Of course, we are not necessarily biologically or cognitively well-equipped to self-diagnose "why" our brains are feeling a particular thing. But nonetheless whether it was my vagus nerve or something else, it certainly felt like it originated outside of my mind.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

As far as I know, it isn't. I have anxiety as part of the bipolar package. And every psychiatrist I've had says that increased blood pressure can trigger anxiety. They can both feel like tightness in the chest and from what I was told, the brain isn't good at separating signals. So your body feeling anxious leads to your brain feeling anxious. It's a wonderful cycle. Throw in asthma for more fun. Now you have three possible problems that can all trigger each other! Get sick and feel short of breath? Now you have four! Aren't bodies fun? :D

JohnBooty 4y ago
That's a wild package. You are dealing with a lot. I hope you are able to step back and give yourself credit once in a while for dealing with so much. The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. You are one of them. No bipolar here but for years I struggled with asthma for years. It is quite the addition to the whole anxiety mix. It definitely took me quite a while to figure out I was dealing with a heart issue, because the symptoms were really similar to asthma.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  > The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. I know you mean well, but I don't like being thought of as a superhero. It defines me by my limitations and hold me up as something exceptional. I actually find this to be quite harmful. :( Consider this: I only need to be exceptional because society would not allow me to be successful otherwise. There are many others with my disability who aren't. It borders on the edge of inspiration porn[1]. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2019/11/29/how-to-avoid-inspiration-porn/?sh=6b74a9e15b3d https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewpulrang/2019/11/29/how-to... I hope my comment isn't too harsh. It's been a long day. :)
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    Damn, I meant the opposite - I just wanted to recognize the struggle. But that's no excuse. Neither is the fact that I have disabilities as well. I'm very, very sorry and extremely appreciative that you took the time to explain that. I owe you.

AeroNotix 4y ago

I have GERD. Prior to properly getting diagnosed I went through a bunch of tests and episodes because the sensations manifested as heart-attack-like symptoms. I can tell you the anxiety produced was, ... palpable.

JohnBooty 4y ago
That much have been an ordeal. A sibling poster posted about a friend having a very similar experience.
aszantu 4y ago
see gutsense.org, maybe it helps. also helped me to eat more gelatine (one teaspoon in the morning), seemingly the body can work these amino acids very fast and it sounds crazy but I felt the effects within a day. The main problem didn't go away for a long time, but a lot of small side issues went away.

orgels_revenge 4y ago

Eat potassium and chelated magnesium

memco 4y ago

Indeed! There's so much overlap between the symptoms of chronic kidney disease[0] and anxiety[1] it would be difficult to know which is which. [0]: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/kidney-disease/chronic-kidney-disease-ckd/what-is-chronic-kidney-disease https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/kidney-disease/... [1]: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/anxiety-disorders https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/anxiety-disorders

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

withinboredom 4y ago

EXACT same situation. I’ll never forget the time I felt a murmur and several seconds later I was panicking. This was before I was diagnosed so I legitimately thought I was having a heart attack. I wasn’t even worried about the murmur, in between those seconds I was thinking “huh, that was weird.” And then wam, slammed with adrenaline. I had never even had panic attacks before… I went to the doc, and he recognized the symptoms as a panic attack. I told the doc “no, you’re not listening. I have zero anxiety in my life right now.” Several dozen attacks later and a doctor that didn’t try to gaslight me into having an anxiety disorder, we found the heart problem. Fun times.