5 ms·

I present to you the best Hacker News comment I've ever read (it was in response to another Primitive Technology video): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32

I present to you the best Hacker News comment I've ever read (it was in response to another Primitive Technology video): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32697419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32697419

nielsbot 4y ago
If I get stranded in ancient times, I hope to God kragen is there with me.
- kragen 4y ago
  from most people's point of view, this will have been ancient times right here they will marvel at how stupid we've been and what obvious opportunities we've been wasting my efforts at improving the situation: http://canonical.org/~kragen/dercuano http://canonical.org/~kragen/dercuano http://canonical.org/~kragen/derctuo http://canonical.org/~kragen/derctuo http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua
thunderbong 4y ago
Man, that entire comment thread is like mind blowing! So many things were possible but didn't happen. Made me wonder about the number of things that are possible now but isn't!
- SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
  No doubt there are many things we could do today, with available materials, but we just don't know how to do it yet. There might be a catalyst that can efficiently combine CO2 with H2O to rip carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and create fuel. There might be a combination of materials and processes that we already know about which would enable grid scale nuclear fusion. There might be a way to use existing materials to create ultrafast photonic circuits. So many technologies are actually pretty simple when you look at their components - a lot of genetic engineering is "just" plastic, metal, and heated water baths.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kragen 4y ago
  thank you, i'm flattered you liked it; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017711 for my thoughts on the things that are possible now but not happening
tunesmith 4y ago
That's extraordinary. If kragen is around, I've always been curious what, if any, of our technological discovery history has really been time-gated rather than just dependency-gated. Like, are there certain technological advancements that simply would have been impossible before the year X, when Y happened?
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  I think Y tends to be a combination of factors like enough wealth within a society combined with enough people and communication and a culture of exploration and experimentation free from overly despotic government. Those circumstances have been quite rare in history as far as we know.
- Retric 4y ago
  The Spinning wheel could arguably have been a Neolithic invention but instead only shows up fairly recently. What makes it notable is it probably saved more labor than any other device in history, and in many ways set the stage for the Industrial revolution. In terms of discovery, trade with the America across the Bering Strait could have occurred vastly earlier and dramatically changed history. It’s likely people where crossing fairly regularly without realizing anything unusual was going on.
  - kragen 4y ago
    the spinning wheel is a wonderful example, and i wish i'd thought of it arguably agriculture, the needle, the bow, the boat, and fire 'saved more labor' than the spinning wheel, but it isn't clear that in their case those even apply
- kragen 4y ago
  it's a really interesting question, and i don't really have a good answer plant has made a reasonably good demonstration here that if you have the knowledge and a fair bit of free time (i.e., you aren't working 60 hours a week just so you aren't arrested by the king's men, don't starve to death, and don't get eaten by lions) you can get from banging rocks together to casting tools from smelted iron within a single human decade; in historical human terms this took from pre-pottery neolithic (≈10'000 bce) to the warring states period (≈500 bce) so it seems that human innovation was purely 'dependency-gated' or maybe 'knowledge-gated' at least during that period; but could we have acquired the knowledge faster? russo's book claims that the main reason we didn't was that we didn't have the hypothetico-deductive method until the hellenistic period, and then it was forgotten again after the roman conquests, until being rediscovered in the 18th and 19th centuries. but even today most places are not advancing rapidly or really at all; life expectancy may be improving in chuuk, bangalore, and montevideo, and they certainly know about the hypothetico-deductive method, but world-changing innovation isn't happening there, and there are worrisome signs it is endangered even in the places it's previously been abundant so i don't think there were, like, volcanic eruptions or eclipses or population explosions or something that needed to happen before technological advancement could continue, if that's what you're asking
kragen 4y ago
wow, that's really flattering! thank you!
adrianN 4y ago
If you liked that comment you might also like https://simplifier.neocities.org/ https://simplifier.neocities.org/
- scns 4y ago
  Great stuff, thank you very much.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nielsbot 4y ago

If I get stranded in ancient times, I hope to God kragen is there with me.

kragen 4y ago
from most people's point of view, this will have been ancient times right here they will marvel at how stupid we've been and what obvious opportunities we've been wasting my efforts at improving the situation: http://canonical.org/~kragen/dercuano http://canonical.org/~kragen/dercuano http://canonical.org/~kragen/derctuo http://canonical.org/~kragen/derctuo http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua

thunderbong 4y ago

Man, that entire comment thread is like mind blowing! So many things were possible but didn't happen. Made me wonder about the number of things that are possible now but isn't!

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
No doubt there are many things we could do today, with available materials, but we just don't know how to do it yet. There might be a catalyst that can efficiently combine CO2 with H2O to rip carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and create fuel. There might be a combination of materials and processes that we already know about which would enable grid scale nuclear fusion. There might be a way to use existing materials to create ultrafast photonic circuits. So many technologies are actually pretty simple when you look at their components - a lot of genetic engineering is "just" plastic, metal, and heated water baths.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kragen 4y ago
thank you, i'm flattered you liked it; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35017711 for my thoughts on the things that are possible now but not happening

tunesmith 4y ago

That's extraordinary. If kragen is around, I've always been curious what, if any, of our technological discovery history has really been time-gated rather than just dependency-gated. Like, are there certain technological advancements that simply would have been impossible before the year X, when Y happened?

throwaway4aday 4y ago
I think Y tends to be a combination of factors like enough wealth within a society combined with enough people and communication and a culture of exploration and experimentation free from overly despotic government. Those circumstances have been quite rare in history as far as we know.
Retric 4y ago
The Spinning wheel could arguably have been a Neolithic invention but instead only shows up fairly recently. What makes it notable is it probably saved more labor than any other device in history, and in many ways set the stage for the Industrial revolution. In terms of discovery, trade with the America across the Bering Strait could have occurred vastly earlier and dramatically changed history. It’s likely people where crossing fairly regularly without realizing anything unusual was going on.
- kragen 4y ago
  the spinning wheel is a wonderful example, and i wish i'd thought of it arguably agriculture, the needle, the bow, the boat, and fire 'saved more labor' than the spinning wheel, but it isn't clear that in their case those even apply
kragen 4y ago
it's a really interesting question, and i don't really have a good answer plant has made a reasonably good demonstration here that if you have the knowledge and a fair bit of free time (i.e., you aren't working 60 hours a week just so you aren't arrested by the king's men, don't starve to death, and don't get eaten by lions) you can get from banging rocks together to casting tools from smelted iron within a single human decade; in historical human terms this took from pre-pottery neolithic (≈10'000 bce) to the warring states period (≈500 bce) so it seems that human innovation was purely 'dependency-gated' or maybe 'knowledge-gated' at least during that period; but could we have acquired the knowledge faster? russo's book claims that the main reason we didn't was that we didn't have the hypothetico-deductive method until the hellenistic period, and then it was forgotten again after the roman conquests, until being rediscovered in the 18th and 19th centuries. but even today most places are not advancing rapidly or really at all; life expectancy may be improving in chuuk, bangalore, and montevideo, and they certainly know about the hypothetico-deductive method, but world-changing innovation isn't happening there, and there are worrisome signs it is endangered even in the places it's previously been abundant so i don't think there were, like, volcanic eruptions or eclipses or population explosions or something that needed to happen before technological advancement could continue, if that's what you're asking

kragen 4y ago

wow, that's really flattering! thank you!

adrianN 4y ago

If you liked that comment you might also like https://simplifier.neocities.org/ https://simplifier.neocities.org/

scns 4y ago
Great stuff, thank you very much.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]